safety statistics

[pgallagher]

Hi,

I'm interested in getting into time trial and possibly some wheel-to-wheel road racing, but naturally I have safety concerns. I've done an HPDE and I have some autocrosses under my belt, and I definitely enjoy this activity and am happy to commit the money for a cage, seat, nets, hans, and harnesses. But from the horror stories online it seems that people still commonly get serious injuries with all of this safety equipment (I'm thinking about side impacts here). I don't want to participate if I can't protect myself to my satisfaction.

So I'm trying to figure out what the statistics are like. Obviously the scattered threads online aren't going to give me a clear picture of the safety situation. I can't find any good accident/injury statistics anywhere (except for some study quoted in a couple books which suggests that club racing is as safe as mountain biking, which is hard to believe given what's written on forums). I was wondering if anyone knew where I might find more careful statistics. For instance, how common are injuries in NASA TT events?

Thanks.

[gbaker]

Originally Posted by pgallagher

...For instance, how common are injuries in NASA TT events?

A driver broke his neck in two places at a NASA TT last year, but that's anecdotal. You won't find that level of detail in most reports.

The Charlotte Observer used to keep records of US fatalities, but that info has not been updated, to my knowledge, for several years. This is the best source for world-wide injuries.

[kbrew8991]

doubtful you'll find hard stats anywhere. In the end its all as safe as you want to make yourself. The safest way is to not get out there (can't hit the wall from the stands) but that's no way to live imho.

knock on wood I've had zero incidents this year with NASA-TX (not even a dinged car) in the TT group I'm in charge of... granted most of the tracks we run at barely have anything to hit though

what kind of car are you considering building? that may have a big impact on relative safety (big wide slow car vs a narrow small fast one) after all

[Stack]

Until there's such a thing as an organization specifically overseeing the safety of amateur motorsports, you won't find very much info on the subject outside of the internet reports (which of course, are almost always wild speculation from "witnesses" or people who know people who were there... almost never someone directly involved.)

Best you can hope for is to get some open information by directly asking the organization with which you hope to participate. Just ask them what their incident rate is like. They certainly aren't obliged by anything official to tell you, but the good ones will tell you what they can.

Asking participants can be a way to get the info as well, but again, any info like that is subject to that person's direct experience.

[Stack]

Ken is completely right about it being as safe as you make it... however he and I have a long-running debate about how active or passive a role organizations should play in the issue... especially when it comes to time trialing.

But there truly is only so much an organization can do before it becomes the sole responsibility of the driver, no matter what level of competition.

I've seen track incidents w/damage on the rise over the last few years at our events, but actual injuries for us are non-existent. The majority of those incidents happen during the HPDE sessions (usually the advanced guys or instructors). Overall (including time trial) I'd estimate we average about 6 cars a year that incur some type of damage. One day we'll actually sit down and take our incident logs and compile them.

[pgallagher]

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking of building a Spec E30 or an E36 M3. So not hugely powerful.

I will try to get information from the people that run the events in NorCal (my area). It's comforting to know that at least in some areas NASA time trials are relatively incident-free.

I'm not sure I understand this comment about the sport being "as safe as you make it": obviously it's safe to not drive on the track. But it's not clear to me that, even with all the race safety equipment that they can find, racers view their sport as satisfactorily safe. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression.

[Sterling Doc]

I had a chance to talk with CART's medical director at a medical confernce a couple of years ago, and saw graphs of NASCAR's injury rates recently. The step wise decline with HNR, and side nets was striking. They both stressed that if you can keep the head, torso, and hips in line, you can maintain safety to a very high level. They also said not to rely on a full containment seat or HNR alone for this - side nets are signficantly stronger, and help catch the shoulder, as well.
Racing a slower, but strong car also adds to the safety. One area that remains to be improved on a club (vs. pro) level is track technology. Many club racing tracks are simply out of date in this regard.

Overall, I am quite satisfied with the level of safety available, and I say this as a conservative medical professional. You do have to be fussy & careful to optomize your safety, however.

[pgallagher]

Thanks, these replies have been quite helpful. Is there any relevant data online from that medical conference?

[Warpedcow]

Originally Posted by pgallagher

obviously it's safe to not drive on the track

The lead instructor (former ALMS winner) for BIR Performance (trackday and HPDE club) has said in 25+ years of holding events, there have been zero injuries (but quite a few totalled cars!) He also says driving TO the track is actually more dangerous than driving ON the track, and I'm inclined to believe him...

[Stack]

Originally Posted by pgallagher

I'm not sure I understand this comment about the sport being "as safe as you make it": obviously it's safe to not drive on the track. But it's not clear to me that, even with all the race safety equipment that they can find, racers view their sport as satisfactorily safe. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression.

What it means to me is this: To be safe you must not get into an accident. So, to not get into an accident, you have numerous choices to make:

• Attend an event, or not

• Attend a competitive event, or not

• Prepare your car properly, or not

• Prepare your car to the minimum standards of the organization, or go above and beyond for your own personal confidence

• Get as much instruction as you can before you start competitive driving, or not

• Get instruction/coaching specific to competitive driving, or not.

• Compete in a wheel-to-wheel environment, or stick to separated cars environments (think autocross on a track, like the Redline events.)

• This is where Ken and I differ greatly: Assume that your car (or the wall it might hit) doesn't know the difference between time trialing and wheel-to-wheel racing... or that it somehow does.

• Run with organizations that have strict requirements for competitive events, who have strict on-track protocol rules, who have entry rules and tech rules designed to protect attendees, not just get them to sign up... or not.

Any and all of these choices equate to events being as safe as you make them.

Getting INJURED in an accident is of course a function of getting in an accident in the first place.