Heel/Toe questions

[TailWagger]

Originally Posted by JimLill

Something else to consider....

If your gearbox has no syncros, there are none to save and and rev matching is done to allow a downshift.

If it does have syncros, skipping gears can be harder on the syncros if you do not rev match.

Indeed and this is a point which Bentley does make a little later in the discussion, and goes on to talk about double clutching in this regard. He also mentions sequentials as well as form where skipping gears may not be possible.

[steveh]

Originally Posted by TailWagger

Admittedly the need for multiple downshifts is relatively rare, but unless your skill level is highly refined, if you encounter such a scenario, I would bet that most amateurs, if comfortable skipping gears, will be a tick or two faster than those that HT all the way down.

It would interesting to have hard data on that conclusion (tough, I bet, because of the number of variables), but I still think "comfort" is the operative word here. I willingly give up the "tick or two" because, for me at least, the muscle memory is too strong, and I'd be all screwed up if I tried to skip gears while H/T, modulating the brakes, dialing in steering, etc.

Maybe it's an OCD thing, but I need to move through the gears in sequence (up and down) to know where I am. Plus I'm terrified of skipping down and over-revving the low gear. When you sequence down, you can see (tach) and hear that you're in the right rev range for the gear you're in, and the one you're about to shift down to. It may wear a little more on engine and drive train, but there's much less chance of an "oops-BAM" when sequencing down.

[TailWagger]

Originally Posted by steveh

It would interesting to have hard data on that conclusion (tough, I bet, because of the number of variables), but I still think "comfort" is the operative word here. I willingly give up the "tick or two" because, for me at least, the muscle memory is too strong, and I'd be all screwed up if I tried to skip gears while H/T, modulating the brakes, dialing in steering, etc.

Maybe it's an OCD thing, but I need to move through the gears in sequence (up and down) to know where I am. Plus I'm terrified of skipping down and over-revving the low gear. When you sequence down, you can see (tach) and hear that you're in the right rev range for the gear you're in, and the one you're about to shift down to. It may wear a little more on engine and drive train, but there's much less chance of an "oops-BAM" when sequencing down.

As nearly always, I chose my words quite carefully... "bet" and "comfort". Thanks for picking up on that! I hate to keep going back to Bentley, its not like I consider him a god or anything, far from it, but he does emphasize in this passage in this chapter exactly what you are referring to, the muscle memory of years on the street and suggests that you try skipping gears, not that you must.

As an aside, perhaps one reason this doesn't bother me so much is that n the street I skip gears all the time, both up shifting and downshifting, not for performance reasons, but rather in a quest for better fuel efficiency, It not uncommon to get up to speed via 1-2-5 or 1-2-4-6. Off ramps are psychologically harder as I'm rarely going full tilt so I'll do whatever feels right, 6-3-2 or 6-4-3-2, though rarely do I ever go 6-2.

So I'll go back to my original statement, at the outset of this one which is that IMO, less is more, BUT, there are legitimate arguments on both sides. and there really is no right answer. My purpose in relighting the fire here was to put forth the notion that relying on engine braking in conjunction with applying the brakes has its pitfalls and at least the author of one of the bibles for our sport condemns the practice, BUT he does NOT say one shouldn't be the selecting each gear on the way down, merely that more actions mean more potential for screwups.