OMG this makes my blood BOIL!!!

Stack · #1 05-14-2006, 07:52 AM

Hey guys... if you've got a good 45 minutes to an hour to spare, please follow this link to a thread at a Lotus forum (and I'm sure many other forums) about the ... EXTREME NEGLIGENCE AND STUPIDITY ON EVERYONE'S PART ... at an event at Pocono East last weekend (edit... a couple weekends ago maybe? Looks like I'm late hearing about this)...

Be sure to read the entire thread, the first couple pages are shear speculation as to the incident, but later, the instructor in the video taping car makes a couple posts...

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...ghlight=pocono

Video of the incident here:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/D...7B82294422.htm

Any number of things bother me about this incident

JimLill · #2 05-14-2006, 09:07 AM

I have only gone to Trackmasters for HPDE, and only at WG. They run a tight ship and excellent safety rules. I have heard that school quality is uneven, I guess that is an example.

Conan · #3 05-14-2006, 09:24 AM

Haven't seen the vid yet (can't find the plugin for firefox!!), but from the forum, it really sounds like very bad descision making from organizers and instructors. I can't believe they let that guy and his idiot friend back on the track.

Stack · #4 05-14-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Haven't seen the vid yet (can't find the plugin for firefox!!), but from the forum, it really sounds like very bad descision making from even organizers and instructors. I can't believe they let that guy and his idiot friend back on the track.

Yeah... I had to open IE to view the vid

Kompressor · #5 05-14-2006, 01:01 PM

i spent 3 or 4 hours viewing all of this on a ford focus forum im a part of www.focaljet.com and i can tell you the guy in the audi filming and his freind in the evo should be banned for life from any track event. there is no excuse to destroy 90 thousand dollars worth of cars, i doubt mr evo even has the money to cover an nsx, and the nissan and his car, and the hospital bills of the folks in the nissan. not only that if you can believe it the was driving solo, and had already spun his car twice, per the posts, he had refused an instructor and thats why he was solo. dont ask me how that goes down no thanks id rather not have an instructor ? i mean common the event was obvoiusly poorly managed, but the genious evo driver and his friend still take the heat from me. i cant believe how dumb they are, and how they even appear to be proud of their shinanaigans.

the instructor the chick that was with the audi driver posted on their, and she was fighting the kid for the wheel because he pulled off track to film his friend total 2 cars, and injure inocent people apparently per all the stories, audi boy was at watkins glen the very following weekend . words cannot describe how mad that story made me unreal. seriously unreal.

just read the posts from the red bimmer that had just gotten passed by the evo he said i let him go by because he was driviing crazy, and heck the guy in the audi put two wheels off track, not to sound like a jerk but ive been to two weekends and have managed to stay on track I listen to my insturctors its not that hard geeze, watch the vid and look at his steering imputs, he also crosses over his hands on the wheel. as well as tottally missing the line, and just generally unbalancing the car, just wretched.

if hes new then he has the wrong attitude if hes been at it a few years then hes a tottal moron for not learning anything. ego is the worst thing to bring to the track, ill admit i do have my ego moments in street driving but at the track i leave my ego home im smart enough to realize I could actually learn something, and my eyes tell me the other drivers blow me away. its not hard to feel superior when you get cut off by somone reading a book and talking on a phone while driving. but that attitude doesnt fly at the track.

vote 1 for lifetime ban of the audi guy and his friend mr evo driver. if you have time go thru that mess and be angry . the guy crashed his evo on the straight too which was awsome, two wheels of right, two off left, rotate go off right hit 2 cars staging for next group. granted the cars shouldnt have been there in hot laps but still one wouldnt expect a moron to make a minor error and keep his foot on the floor either.

meh rant over.

Darkworx · #6 05-14-2006, 01:33 PM

Ego stay at home!

Lobo6 · #7 05-14-2006, 01:43 PM

A friend had sent me this vid link a couple of days ago. I've watched it many times. I did read some of the posts on the Elise forum. This is so bad on so many levels I don't know where to begin.

Both drivers were idiots. The driver of the "chase car" has no idea of what he was doing on track. That same driver had the gall to pull off and continue filming the wreck. From what I have read, both of these guys should have been out of the event already. What group was running this event? I've never driven Pocano, but since when are cars being staged next to a hot track with no wall/barrier to seperate them?

Kompressor makes good points, show up, come to learn, check your ego at the front gate, or stay home. I feel really bad for the drivers of the cars in staging. If there is some lawsuit resulting from this it will be filed against the organizers of the event for negligence on several levels.

Conan · #8 05-14-2006, 03:40 PM

I agree about the staging area being a bad idea, but IMO the root cause was allowing that loser back on the track after two spins AND flagrant disregard of instructor commands. I'm so stunned, I can't really say anything other than I can't believe they didn't pull him off the track sooner.

Stack · #9 05-14-2006, 03:55 PM

It is truly amazing that no one was seriously injured in this incident (as far as I know.) It would not have taken much for the headlines to have read 'three die in freak auto accident'

IMHO, as a participant, and as an event organizer, no one individual can be blamed for this. It is the unforunate sum of many mistakes and oversights.

In certainly no particular order, and of course, based only on the info gathered from the posts, here's why this incident makes my so angry (Edit: in the process of writing the following, it became apparent that the more I typed, the more I seemed to be blaming the event organizers. I hope no one takes the following as me trying to lessen the negligence of the drivers, but I am of the opinion that event organizers have MUCH more power than they think to prevent these types of situations. There will ALWAYS be thick-headed people who do stupid things... it is our job as organizers to be proactive to prevent these stupid things from injuring innocent participants, bystanders, and facility or club staff.):

Running a high-speed event at a venue with so little safety precausions... Looking at the video, this circuit should have never been approved for use by automotive high-speed events with multiple cars on track. With no safety barriers, that leaves the track wide open for off-track excursions to result in the only other thing to hit being hit: other participants. Not only that, the corner workers are out there with nothing?! WTF?!

Doing what 'every one else' has done in the past, letting convenience rule over common sense... It sounds like the cars were gridded up as they were to facilitate everyone getting on track as quickly as possible. Completely inexcusable IMO.

Knowingly falsifying previous experience... I'll give the organizers the benefit of the doubt that they at least ASKED what kind of experience these guys had

Not being diligent in getting and following up on experience references for someone new to your event... If the event organizers did not know these guys, they should have asked for and follwed up on references as to their previence on-track experience. If you can't verify it, you send them their money back and tell them sorry.

Not being aware of every 'incident' on track... reports are that the EVO driver went off twice previously that day. No word what he did the first day, or even if it was a two-day event. While I know from experience, that even with the best communication between corner workers and event staff, you can miss things, at least officially. But your regulars will tell you what's going on out there.

Not having the proper rules in place, or not enforcing said rules... Our events, and other groups in our area, generally adhere to the '2-off rule' or 'two spin rule'. Two uncontrolled spins (on OR off track) results in the driver being parked for the rest of the day. ANY spin or 4-wheels off (controlled/saved or not) requires the driver pull into the hot pits for a de-brief of what happened with the steward on duty and to check the car over. Failure to do this results in the car being black-flagged. This is made very clear ahead of time.

IF having the rules, and the information; not having the cajones to throw someone out of an event for reckless driving... Sure, you're gonna piss someone off. But you know what? The people you piss off because you're throwing them out for reckless/careless driving... you don't want them at your event. Them being pissed at you, and not coming back to your event is MUCH better than some being pissed at you because you allowed situations to arise that endanged property and people.

Stack · #10 05-14-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

I agree about the staging area being a bad idea, but IMO the root cause was allowing that loser back on the track after two spins AND flagrant disregard of instructor commands. I'm so stunned, I can't really say anything other than I can't believe they didn't pull him off the track sooner.

I think there's some confusion here... the guy in the EVO never had an instructor. It was his buddy in the Audi, who had the in-car camera, that was not following instruction and went through three different people that day.