Care to rip apart my driving at Thunderhill?

[zslinger]

Curious,

I renumbered the list in my first post. To clear any confusion up, I'm assuming you are driving an Elise so I'm judging your driving with a focus on the momentum line. You simply cannot afford to make a mistake in a momentum car. You need all the mid corner speed you can get and that will come with a stable entry. That's why I suggested a slower entry. I would look again at T8 in your video. Slow, accurate turn in, great mid corner speed and solid exit. It is a very strong corner.

As for my background, I've been tracking for five years and racing for two. I would guess that I have logged a 100+ track days in that time. I'm a graduate of the Panoz Racing School and have been instructing for two years at PCA and BMW events. I presently drive a DSR, previously drove a 350Z and have been fortunate to drive a wide variety of cars on 9 tracks.

Geoff

[curious]

Lobo, I'd done three days at T'hill prior to this trip. The first day, I was just screwing around in a rental Chevy Cavalier. It wasn't fast, but I did get it to turn with a lot of trail-braking. The second day was spent running the track clockwise, which is the opposite of the "normal" direction. The third was a month after I'd gotten the Lotus and was still learning the car. Thus, this trip felt like a first time for me, even though I'd been around the track before.

ZSlinger, I have to say for someone who's never driven Thunderhill before, your critique is remarkably helpful -- and generous. Thank you.

I suspect that some of what you've said would change if you were familiar with the track -- and a review of my DL-1 logs would add some nuance -- but you've definitely identified the connundrum I've been struggling with for much of this season.

My self-critique is that I've gotten pretty good with carrying speed pretty much everywhere -- corner entry, mid-corner, and trackout -- but I tend to drive the car too hard into corners, rather than focusing on getting on full throttle as early as is absolutely possible. Put another way, I can pick up some time by doing a better job of giving up time on corner entry. It's a question of trade-offs, and one that's easy to get wrong. A tiny amount of excess speed on entry can exact a big price in terms of exit speed -- but going into a corner slower than is necessary is just wasted time.

To give myself credit, a 2:09 running the Cyclone's about as fast as I've seen for a stock Lotus Elise on stock Yoko A048 tires, but I know there's time left on the table. Some of that I'll pick the next time I drive the track (I don't pretend to know it well), as I was still struggling to figure out how much speed I could carry into T1 (it's very fast and it's not possible to see track-out until you're well into the corner), over the Bypass (too much speed over the crest and the car would get sideways on the backside of the hill), across T8 (it's just hugely fast with a huge bump at the apex so it's not a corner where you want ANY oversteer in the little Lotus), and through the T14/15 sequence (it's possible to use the curbing more efficiently in the little straight between the two corners, but there's real risk of sliding off the backside into the infield).

But seat-time is only part of the answer, and I appreciate your feedback. Let me know if ever I can return the favor. Everyone benefits from coaching, and I'm pretty decent at it too.

Curious

[zslinger]

Originally Posted by curious

Lobo, I'd done three days at T'hill prior to this trip. The first day, I was just screwing around in a rental Chevy Cavalier. It wasn't fast, but I did get it to turn with a lot of trail-braking. The second day was spent running the track clockwise, which is the opposite of the "normal" direction. The third was a month after I'd gotten the Lotus and was still learning the car. Thus, this trip felt like a first time for me, even though I'd been around the track before.

ZSlinger, I have to say for someone who's never driven Thunderhill before, your critique is remarkably helpful -- and generous. Thank you.

I suspect that some of what you've said would change if you were familiar with the track -- and a review of my DL-1 logs would add some nuance -- but you've definitely identified the connundrum I've been struggling with for much of this season.

My self-critique is that I've gotten pretty good with carrying speed pretty much everywhere -- corner entry, mid-corner, and trackout -- but I tend to drive the car too hard into corners, rather than focusing on getting on full throttle as early as is absolutely possible. Put another way, I can pick up some time by doing a better job of giving up time on corner entry. It's a question of trade-offs, and one that's easy to get wrong. A tiny amount of excess speed on entry can exact a big price in terms of exit speed -- but going into a corner slower than is necessary is just wasted time.

To give myself credit, a 2:09 running the Cyclone's about as fast as I've seen for a stock Lotus Elise on stock Yoko A048 tires, but I know there's time left on the table. Some of that I'll pick the next time I drive the track (I don't pretend to know it well), as I was still struggling to figure out how much speed I could carry into T1 (it's very fast and it's not possible to see track-out until you're well into the corner), over the Bypass (too much speed over the crest and the car would get sideways on the backside of the hill), across T8 (it's just hugely fast with a huge bump at the apex so it's not a corner where you want ANY oversteer in the little Lotus), and through the T14/15 sequence (it's possible to use the curbing more efficiently in the little straight between the two corners, but there's real risk of sliding off the backside into the infield).

But seat-time is only part of the answer, and I appreciate your feedback. Let me know if ever I can return the favor. Everyone benefits from coaching, and I'm pretty decent at it too.

Curious

You are very welcome. (And Brave) It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what you need to do. A 2:08 after only having driven the track a couple of times is amazing and THill really looks like a blast. Maybe I can convince the wife I need to take a trip out West next season. I'll definitely give you the chance to return the favor sometime.

[curious]

Originally Posted by zslinger

You are very welcome. (And Brave) It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what you need to do. A 2:08 after only having driven the track a couple of times is amazing and THill really looks like a blast. Maybe I can convince the wife I need to take a trip out West next season. I'll definitely give you the chance to return the favor sometime.

Thanks for the kind words. But I'm not particularly brave: I really do stay within my comfort zone (I can count the number of times I've spun on one hand, maybe two -- and I've never gone more than a couple of feet off-track or had an excursion). It's just easier to quickly get close to the limit when you've driven 20+ tracks. After a while, everything looks like a variation on something you've seen before. The last few seconds, as they say, are the hardest, and the big challenge for me these days is doing a better job of managing the tradeoffs.

If you ever do manage to make it out here, pls. be in touch -- I'll PM you my contact information. Assuming my calendar's accommodating, I'd be happy to work with you for a day or two at any of the following PacNW/NoCal tracks - Sears, Thunderhill, Reno-Fernley, Portland International (my home track), Pacific Raceways, or Spokane. Laguna's possible, but it's a major commitment, as it's 750 miles away. Another option is to just hook-up at an event closer to where you are. Most places, it's possible to rent a spec-Miata for a reasonable fee, and we could coach one another for a day. I enjoy the coaching as much as the driving, honestly, and I'd like to believe I do it well.

Thanks, again,
Curious