PSM (et. al.): Yay or Nay?

[Conan]

Originally Posted by billy

I think there are better and safer ways to push your luck than in your 50k car so I'll leave PSM on in my car.

Ok, I'll guess I'll let you leave it on then

I just want to respond to one more thing (in this post )....

Originally Posted by billy

Under normal, smooth driving, it isn't active, it makes no difference.

Yes it does if you drive at the limit (is there an echo in here??). I'm glad you mentioned Schumie. He's one of the smoothest (if not THE smoothest) drivers in the world, but you can still see him make small corrections during cornering, braking, etc. Even the greatest driver in the world needs to correct small mistakes. Each of those corrections you see him peform would trigger PSM. So "normal smooth driving" can easily trigger any car control unit at the limit. Everything I've read about PSM is how unobtrusive it is and that you hardly notice it's working. So how do you know when you're smooth through a corner it's because you did it and not the computer?

[Conan]

Ok, I know you're all waiting to hear more drivel from me so....

I will agree about driving your own car and not wanting to risk crashing it. That is a pretty solid argument!

[billy]

You know PSM comes on first of all because I know when I screwed up the corner, I can feel it as most would. You know its on also because the light comes on plus you can feel it as it brakes individual wheels.

[kbrew8991]

I catch crap for wanting to keep ABS on my MR2... so...

I can respect not wanting to wad the car up, but its possible to be just as good at that without computers. Maybe try autocrossing or something with less crash risk to get a feel for how to catch the car unassisted?

[Stack]

I'm voting for Depends... if you're gonna wet yourself, you better be prepared...

Wait... that wasn't what you meant was it?

Having never driven a car at the limit with any type of electronic control, not sure I'm very qualified to give my input... but you all know I LOVE to give my input...

I have to agree with most of Conan's points on this one. Here's what it depends on in my opinion:

1. The system itself - Obviously, there are older/newer/more sofisticated systems... anyone read up on what the new M5 can do?! Insane!!
2. Your personal goals - Like Conan said, if you're out there to have fun, get your mind off the daily grind, and you don't need that adrenalin rush of being on that edge... then by all means, leave it on. It could save you or someone near you during that last session of the weekend when you're tired and may not be concentrating as hard as you should be.
3. The Track - If you're at a track with lots of concrete or Armco, or a track you've never been to before, I could see wanting that safety net in place.

[Lobo6]

All I have is ABS. That's all I want. I get better feedback from my car w/o all the computer gizmos. When I need to reel the car in I know I did it w/o any help.

[cavlino]

I bet if you asked Schumie if he turned of PSM he would say NO cause it would never come on for him anyway.

I am siding with Billy on this one. The quote that Toycar 1 put in from our PCA's region driving instructor should make it very clear that it will not interfere under Driver Education event conditions, unless of course you really screw up and then you will be glad it did.

If I had it on my cars (I wish I had it on my Ferrari, long story you will hear about it in August at LCMT) it would be on at least 90% of the time. I might turn it off some times just to see what happens at the limit but only on a track I am very familiar with and one that has lots of run off areas.

The funest and safest place to learn how to deal with your car at and beyound the limits is an autocross or skid pad, there I would turn PorscheSaveMyAss off

[sbranda]

Even if PSM doesn't affect lap times, always using it will cripple you out of a car without it. If you don't know how to fix it when you go past the limit on a car and need the computer to do it for you, there's no way you'll have the nuts to go to the limit on a car without PSM.

For example lets say you have a 220 lbs guy who drives...oh...a Ferrari 348, and a 180 lbs guy who drives a Carrerra 4 with PSM at all times. Even though the 180 lbs guy has the weight advantage, I bet if they went go-karting in Rotax carts or something, the 220 lbs guy would probably KILL him because he's used to pulling powerful cars back from the limit, so he's not affraid to approach the limit.

If only we could figure out some way to test this hypotheseis.....

[billy]

Well, well, well,

Someone opened pandoras box. Lecteuring me about PSM ... Where will I start ...

For karts, these hypothetical drivers seem pretty much even in karts if I remember correctly, 21.7 is a quick time when we (ahem, they) go, the heavier guy managed a 21.0 that special day when the kart was quicker than normal. The heavier driver is more consistent than the lighter one. But most of the time high 21s/22.0x are normal times for both of them at ProKarts and they both usually finish either p1 or p2 depending on the session. Last week in Vegas, I think in the last run, the heavier guy was .07 second faster a lap on the last run. Although if we expanded the set of drivers, we might find some slower drivers than that.

As for PSM on the track, I don't have much experience losing control of my car (repeatedly) but PSM has only interfered with my track days on one occasion and that was when I didn't mind, i.e. the car was breaking loose. There are no style points for spinning at most track days. Apparently, some sports such as Figure Skating do have a points system for spinning and maybe more appropriate for people of the spinning inclination.

As for Rotax karts, we should absolutely go, I can't think of a more fun day than doing that with you, just bring lots of bandages.

[sbranda]

The nice thing about spinning your a few times is that you have something else to talk about besides how slow (20 seconds slower than the same car?) you drove.