Week 2 rFactor Challenge - Old Ring Formula Challenge "Fear the hairpin"

[jstecher]

We travel this week from the grey sky's of Brands Hatch to the sunny country side of Italy and visit the mythical Old Ring where we will run the Formula Challenge circuit a favorite of a certain MS who drove for the national team. :) With an ultra short 1:10-1:15 range lap time and two great overtaking points this track will be sure to be a favorite of everyone and produce some of the best racing we will see all year.

While 16 cars traveled to Brands Hatch we are looking forward to more than 20 joining the circus in Italy all racing for first place and the glory of the top step of the podium.

Download the track from the wiki page ( http://www.trackpedia.com/rFactor/OLDRingPark_v1.8.zip ) and lets start getting out there and pounding down the laps here over the next week. Just a few hours have passed since the last race and I am already wishing next Tuesday was here already.

Look forward to seeing everyone out there.

[Bob McCown]

Beware the hairpin is right... holy cow!

On another note, I just discovered that 94mph is as fast as one of these bricks can go when you take off the nose in T1.

[f2000keith]

Just a note that we're racing the Formula Challenge layout and not the Formula Jr Challenge.

[jstecher]

Your right Keith. Even after we talked about it last night I was still an idiot and put the wrong track configuration name in. :)

You guys are going to love this track. Short lap times mean lots of laps and practice.

[Bob McCown]

Your right Keith. Even after we talked about it last night I was still an idiot and put the wrong track configuration name in. :)

You guys are going to love this track. Short lap times mean lots of laps and practice.

And two hairpins mean lots of fiberglass repair. I need more racers tape!

[Bob McCown]

http://keithcarter.homeip.net:27012/rTop100Factor?max=30
doesn't seem to be reflecting new laptimes for Old Ring? Not that my 1:21 and change is stellar, but its a start. :)

[jstecher]

http://keithcarter.homeip.net:27012/rTop100Factor?max=30
doesn't seem to be reflecting new laptimes for Old Ring? Not that my 1:21 and change is stellar, but its a start. :)

Weird not sure why it wouldn't be showing up but I am sure Keith will get it fixed. :P He deserve a free point by at the track next year at the runoffs for all the work he's done to manage the server.

[Bob McCown]

Now that would be a neat rFactor mod. A point by hand comes out. Hmm..

[f2000keith]

Hmmm.. I'll have to make sure the service is running. I checked it last night by running a few laps to make sure it was working and mine registered ok.

Just to clarify and I don't mean to insult :o... you are running laps on the server and not offline right? Can someone else try to run a timed lap there and see if they can log a lap. I may be going home for lunch and I can restart/start the service if I need to.

[Bob McCown]

Yea, I was just on the server with Matthew Inge. So unless he's hacked into my local network... :D

[HawkBat]

Ok, I think I am officially an Idioit. I am in the server but can not race still. hmm.

never mind I somehow fixed it and am able to join. not sure exactly what I did that changed it but oh well.

[Lemming]

Do you guys have wheels on your desk to be able to post time for the new circuit so soon :bow:

[jstecher]

Do you guys have wheels on your desk to be able to post time for the new circuit so soon :bow:

:lol: no kidding!! Man I expected to see one time out there not 4. All I can say is awesome...this game is like crack. :P

[f2000keith]

Matthew and Chris are school kids.... Not sure about Bob. :confused::)

[Bob McCown]

Hah! I'm a software developer and I work from home (yay telecommuting!). I have several minutes at a time where I'm doing nothing waiting for things to finish, so I can put in a lap or 5 here and there.

[HawkBat]

Matthew and Chris are school kids.... Not sure about Bob. :confused::)
Hey I resent that, I am a college student lol.

My fastest time was a 1.25.966

I am using the keyboard, and have no clue what I am doing. Problem is when using the keyboard you have no sensory input so you can't tell a thing of what the car wants. Plus it will not turn with buttons.

Anyone have a suggestion for getting a wheel/pedals for a good price I would love to know.

[Warpedcow]

Anyone have a suggestion for getting a wheel/pedals for a good price I would love to know.

Logitech MOMO, $99 at Best Buy. It got me 7th place in my first ever rFactor race. Only complaint I have is that if you really WHACK the paddle shifts, it'll give you two gears instead of one (it bounces). Happened twice in the race, causing spins both times. I probably would have been fighting Stack for 5th place othewise. :stupid:

[HawkBat]

Just ordered the Logitech Driving Force GT. I am thinking of it of an investment.

[Bob McCown]

I bought a lightly used G25 off ebay for $219, that included shipping. The guy has a raft of them.

[Mike_B]

Logitech MOMO, $99 at Best Buy. It got me 7th place in my first ever rFactor race. Only complaint I have is that if you really WHACK the paddle shifts, it'll give you two gears instead of one (it bounces). Happened twice in the race, causing spins both times. I probably would have been fighting Stack for 5th place othewise. :stupid:

My ancient Act Labs Force RS used to do that. Try to find some stiffer springs for the paddle shifters. With stronger return, they will be less likely to bounce back. You don't want the springs to be too strong though, or they will keep the micro switch engaged all the time. You could also try to put some thin foam behind the shifter so it takes up some of the energy when it rebounds. Finally, take it apart and see if there is some way you can increase the resistance on the paddles so they take more force to move.

[HawkBat]

anyone going to be doing some laps tonight?

[Skeen]

I'll be getting on pretty soon.

[Mike_B]

Logitech MOMO, $99 at Best Buy. It got me 7th place in my first ever rFactor race. Only complaint I have is that if you really WHACK the paddle shifts, it'll give you two gears instead of one (it bounces). Happened twice in the race, causing spins both times. I probably would have been fighting Stack for 5th place othewise. :stupid:

Found something that may help you online while searching for something completely different. It's a bit illegible, but here it is....

New to the game but I have had a couple of offs due to double shifting on the DFP change the default to 1 or 2 to reduce these instances in your "username".PLR.


Repeat Shifts="1" // 0 = no repeat shift detection, 1 = detect and eliminate accidental repeat shifts, 2 = prevent shifting again before previous shift is completed

[Warpedcow]

Thanks Mike, trying repeat shifts at 1 now!

[jstecher]

Damn you bastards running laps tonight. Wish I had the chance to get out there tonight but will be out tomorrow. What's everyone thing of the track so far? 8 cars within a second of each other after the first night means awesome racing. :P

[Bob McCown]

The track is great for my ham-handed driving style. Still haven't figured out the first turn grouping for fast times. When I do a sub-1:17 time on the track, its due to sheer luck, not any knowledge of how to take that set of turns.

The rest of the track flows nicely, even the hairpin. The two esses are great if you get them spot on, but the second one is very unforgiving if you go in too hot, or if you ride up the curbs too much.

[Doug Carter]

The two esses are great if you get them spot on, but the second one is very unforgiving if you go in too hot, or if you ride up the curbs too much.

Tap the brakes or lift before entering the second set to settle the car a touch and you'll get through faster with less chance of chaos at the end of them.


Also Chris, please don't take offence to this, but driving with the keyboard, and worrying about setups, lines and shift points is kind of pointless—especially while on the server with another 7 or 8 cars out there. It's really hard on the other cars to be constantly dodging your bouncing car, considering that damage was still active on the server. Every time you cracked into someone, they had to restart because of the damage.

Just a suggestion, but you may wish to keep practicing offline until you get a wheel, then join in the server with everyone else practicing. You'll get up to speed a LOT quicker, and everyone else will thank you for it. ;)

:shift:

[Bob McCown]

Tap the brakes or lift before entering the second set to settle the car a touch and you'll get through faster with less chance of chaos at the end of them.


Also Chris, please don't take offence to this, but driving with the keyboard, and worrying about setups, lines and shift points is kind of pointless—especially while on the server with another 7 or 8 cars out there. It's really hard on the other cars to be constantly dodging your bouncing car, considering that damage was still active on the server. Every time you cracked into someone, they had to restart because of the damage.

Just a suggestion, but you may wish to keep practicing offline until you get a wheel, then join in the server with everyone else practicing. You'll get up to speed a LOT quicker, and everyone else will thank you for it. ;)

:shift:


Yup! I think I figured out the second set of esses this morning. A light lift (I'm in 4th) and then a gentle pressure to keep the car interested until Im halfway through the final turn. Drift as wide as I can and nail it. Im into fifth right after I start hitting the start boxes.

Chris: I agree about the wheel bit. I thought I was doing OK with the joystick, but, damn, I gained a shade under 7 seconds within 5 laps after I got my wheel set up. :cheers:

[billy]

It was fun last night, didn't get many laps but posted a decent enough time. Most of last night was spent reinstalling Windows and everything, uughhh. But, got 30 minutes in so hey.

[Bob McCown]

OK, Im mostly getting my rhythm down, but Im still having trouble in T1/2/3 combination there. Where's the speed through there without seriously cutting the corners?

[Lemming]

I tried cutting those corners and think that the grass must be wet since I tended to spin coming back on :o

[f2000keith]

You're at the top of the time charts now Bob. I'd say that's more than a rhythm... Was that a legit lap? If so, NICE!!! :clap:

[Bob McCown]

Legit except cutting the T2/3 (?) on top of the curbing/grass. Id hate to see what my car would be like if I did that on an actual track. :)

[Lemming]

what was the time? I don't see it listed at http://home.comcast.net/~keith.carter/trackpedia/

[Skeen]

what was the time? I don't see it listed at http://home.comcast.net/~keith.carter/trackpedia/

Ditto. I'm confused.

As for t1-3, you want to run the shortest distance through t1 (tight, on top of the curb). As much curb in 2&3 as you can without messing up your line, but remember that your exit from t3 is crucial as it determines most of sector two as you should be flat all the way down to the hairpin.

[Doug Carter]

Bob is "Hack Patooey" in the speed charts...

1:14.337 is cookin' without off roading through T1/2/3.

[Bob McCown]

Ah, I'm "Hack Patooey". Its my standard handle for online gaming... :)

Thanks for the tips on 1-3. Ive been trying to go deep into 1 and come around steep.

[HawkBat]

Wow, look at those times. And I thought I was doing good for a first timer with a keyboard.

And Doug I am sorry for bouncing off of a few times, especially at that last corner complex. That barrier they put there is just stupid you hit it you will go in the middle of the track no matter what.

And don't worry now I have my wheel. As for the shifting and set up it was just more about learning a little. My shifting sucks since I don't have much experience with manual transmission in real life. And now I learned you can adjust mirrors i should be able to see you better now :)

[Doug Carter]

Great news, Chris. I think you'll like your experience with the SIM and a wheel/pedal setup a LOT better than the keyboard. The game just got infinitely easier for you. It's really a drastic difference in game play.

Now about that "shifting" thing... :shift:

[jstecher]

You guys playing during the day is really ticking me off. :) How can you expect someone to actually get work done while they watch the laptimes drop. bastard. Way to go Hack guess that binary input for a brake now being analog is much nicer. :P

[Lemming]

you guys playing during the day is really ticking me off. :) how can you expect someone to actually get work done while they watch the laptimes drop. Bastard. Way to go hack guess that binary input for a brake now being analog is much nicer. :p

+100.

No doubt that this is a competitive group, just look at everyone who showed up for the first night of practice!

[Bob McCown]

Getting the wheel and pedals was an incredible improvement. I've found about 8-9 seconds just with that. I spec'd Skeen a bit just now to figure out his line around T1/2/3, and I *THINK* I got it. Had one good run where I got below 1:14, but couldn't pull it together after that. Grrrrr :stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid:

[Mike_B]

Crap. I think my old Act Labs Force RS wheel just died.

I shouldn't be spending money on a G25 right now.

<edit>
Now it's working. This can't be a good sign though.

[Bob McCown]

Mike, I got my G25 on EBay from a guy that has a raft of used ones for $219, including shipping. If you're interested, email me and Ill send you the guys name. (I assume posting it in the open violates some sort of rule?)

No interest in this besides a happy customer, etc etc etc

[HawkBat]

never mind figured it out.

[HawkBat]

Ok since the driving force gt is a PS3 controller that can be used for the PC it didn't come with software. where in logitech would I get this. Sounds like there is a universal file or something.

[Mike_B]

I don't know about you guys, but whenever Matt Newcombe is on the server I see a boxy car that is all grey with the word "Temp" on the side. I think I've figured out why that is. Take a look at the circled area in this screenshot of the car.
http://www.yippee38.net/images/rFactor/newcombe.jpg

[Bob McCown]

Interesting. Looks like his skin isnt painted on the bit where the cutout is, and his .veh file is set to have the non-cutout rear clip. Odd

[Stack]

I don't know about you guys, but whenever Matt Newcombe is on the server I see a boxy car that is all grey with the word "Temp" on the side. I think I've figured out why that is. Take a look at the circled area in this screenshot of the car.
http://www.yippee38.net/images/rFactor/newcombe.jpg

Nah... the boxy car is simply him coming online after you... esc to your pit, then go back out, you';ll see his car just fine.

That "fairing" is actually an in-mod upgrade for the SRF... anyone can have it, but if it's not painted right, you'll see the false wheel arch

[HawkBat]

Those farings are what SRF/Spec Renaults used to run when they had Yokohama's. There are still a few cars out there that use them.

But I sometimes see him as a box and sometimes not.

[f2000keith]

Yes, that's just a typical TEMP car. When you're on track and someone else joins the server and comes onto the track they will have the temp (grey shoebox) car. When you go back to the garage and get back on track, they will have their normal skin. There are a few temp car skins out there that are kind of amusing... A golf cart, a cop car, etc... so you don't just see a grey box. It's common.

[Mike_B]

Yes, that's just a typical TEMP car. When you're on track and someone else joins the server and comes onto the track they will have the temp (grey shoebox) car. When you go back to the garage and get back on track, they will have their normal skin. There are a few temp car skins out there that are kind of amusing... A golf cart, a cop car, etc... so you don't just see a grey box. It's common.

Oh. Ok. For some reason I noticed it on his car several times. I thought it was a problem with the skin.

[Matt Newcombe]

Whoops, guess I forgot that extra tidbit of sheetmetal. I wasn't planning on running with the wheel coverings, so I guess that's why I didn't paint that part. When I created the .DDS file, I might have accidentally saved it with an extra alpha channel - that might explain the weird things happening with my skin. It flickers on and off on me sometimes and goes all funky and triangulated at other times. When the skins update comes around, I'll make sure to create the proper file :s. Sorry about this... I'll run a default skin if it turns into a problem for everyone.

[Bob McCown]

Golf cart? Can we request that one as a permanent skin? :D

[HawkBat]

I think I have hit the speed barrier.

For the data mod. which of the download options do I choose there is a bunch of different ones.

[Mike_B]

I think I have hit the speed barrier.

That's better than the barrier in the chicane. If it makes you feel better, I have too.

Get the Data Acquisition Plugin download, and grab the Motec Pro 1.2 download too (any of them that work for you). The DA plugin captures the data. Motec lets you view it in a meaningful way.

[HawkBat]

ok thanks

do I have to save the files to a particular folder?

[Bob McCown]

That's better than the barrier in the chicane.

I hit those plenty of times.

[kydiwl]

I tried to get online tonight, but A) my car shows up in the showroom, but I can't select it to purchase it, and B) when I try to go on with another car (Mike McCann Racing) I get booted for vehicle not found, Anybody have a solution? I posted my zip file to the server as kyle.zip and my files all have kick455 in the name.

[f2000keith]

Do you have the full trackpedia skin pack downloaded and installed?

[Doug Carter]

Kyle, I don't think your skin is on the server, as the one you originally uploaded was a corrupt ZIP file on the Trackpedia FTP site. I don't thin John knew where to go for a replacement. You might want to zip the files up and get them to Keith to put on the server.

Not sure why you are having trouble with one of the stock skins, though. Plenty of guys are using the stock skins on the server.

[f2000keith]

Golf cart? Can we request that one as a permanent skin? :D

You can on your own PC
(http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Temp%20Cars)

[billy]

My 13.8 isn't legit, fastest is a 15.2. I cut the first chicane trying to catch warp last night.

[Warpedcow]

I did the same test, gained 2.006 seconds cutting the chicane... I didn't finish the lap though so my times are still legit...

[HawkBat]

well the frustration paid off. got myself down into the low 16's

[f2000keith]

I'll kill your time Billy since it's a new user account. You'll have to reset a fast time.

[f2000keith]

I did the same test, gained 2.006 seconds cutting the chicane... I didn't finish the lap though so my times are still legit...


Just to clarify, what corner gains 2 seconds? 1, 2, or 3?

[Warpedcow]

On your map Keith, cutting 1 nets 2 seconds.

[kydiwl]

Do you have the full trackpedia skin pack downloaded and installed?

Sorry, I forgot to mention that. Yes I installed the skin pack.

Kyle, I don't think your skin is on the server, as the one you originally uploaded was a corrupt ZIP file on the Trackpedia FTP site. I don't thin John knew where to go for a replacement. You might want to zip the files up and get them to Keith to put on the server.

Not sure why you are having trouble with one of the stock skins, though. Plenty of guys are using the stock skins on the server.

I'll try posting another zip. I use 7zip instead of WinZip so there may be an issue there. I'll use WinZip this time and see if that matters.

Thanks, Doug

[jstecher]

Hey Kyle. I couldnt get your zip file to open with anything I did. I use 7zip as well so I dont think that was a problem. If you upload it again I will include it in the skin refresh we will do after the Sebring race but in the mean time if you dont mind just use a default car.

Sorry man.

Billy you cheating bastard.

[Doug Carter]

Just to clarify, what corner gains 2 seconds? 1, 2, or 3?

Keith, on what planet is the first three turns called turn one and the second set of esses called turns 2 and 3?

Count the apexes.

[Bob McCown]

Yea, I'm under the impression that the first three turns are T1/2/3, and the chicane after that is 4 or 4/5.

And 1/2/3 is what is giving me fits. I cant be consistent over it at all. I either get 1 and 2 spot on, and blow 3, or some combination thereof.

argh!

[kydiwl]

Hey Kyle. I couldnt get your zip file to open with anything I did. I use 7zip as well so I dont think that was a problem. If you upload it again I will include it in the skin refresh we will do after the Sebring race but in the mean time if you dont mind just use a default car.

Sorry man.


No worries. I've transferred a new zip file. I deleted kyle.zip from the directory and named this one kick455.zip.

[f2000keith]

Keith, on what planet is the first three turns called turn one and the second set of esses called turns 2 and 3?

Count the apexes.


Those are there to reference the turns and not the actual corner numbers smartass. For example you can use A,B, or C of you'd like or even "thumb" for the first corner, "index" for the second corner, and MIDDLE FINGER for the third corner. :p:p:p:p:p

[Bob McCown]

... and MIDDLE FINGER for the third corner. :p:p:p:p:p

I've been doing that for the first corner for two days now... :)

[Stack]

Hey John ... U suk


:cheers:

[f2000keith]

lol!

Guys,
If you cut a corner, for the sake of keeping the hotlaps legit, please back off enough to not beat your best time already posted. In order for me to erase a cutter lap you'll need to be cleared for the entire hotlaps system for all the old tracks already run. In the case of Billy, since he rebuilt his system and is using his full name now instead of what he used for Brands I was able to clear his name this time without wiping out his time from Brands.

[Stack]

lol!

Guys,
If you cut a corner, for the sake of keeping the hotlaps legit, please back off enough to not beat your best time already posted. In order for me to erase a cutter lap you'll need to be cleared for the entire hotlaps system for all the old tracks already run. In the case of Billy, since he rebuilt his system and is using his full name now instead of what he used for Brands I was able to clear his name this time without wiping out his time from Brands.

I think we'll all know that if we see Billy's name in the top 5 of the lap times, something is wrong :D


zzzzzzing!

[Lemming]

Define cutting? I'm assuming that jumping curbs is legal :D

[Stack]

Define cutting? I'm assuming that jumping curbs is legal :D

I like the iRacing general rule of thumb that it can't be more than half the width of the car off the racing surface (racing surface would include the width of the gators.)

In my opinion, turn-in and track-out are fair game if you can keep it straight and safe.

[jstecher]

Agreed Stack...and the Billy comment made me spit my water out! Your need a warning on posts like that dude.

[Stack]

Agreed Stack...and the Billy comment made me spit my water out! Your need a warning on posts like that dude.

lol ... sorry about that ;)

[Lemming]

I like the iRacing general rule of thumb that it can't be more than half the width of the car off the racing surface (racing surface would include the width of the gators.)

In my opinion, turn-in and track-out are fair game if you can keep it straight and safe.

Ok, then I'm legit :clap:

[Bob McCown]

:mad::grumble::stupid::(:shift:

Grrrrrr

*&#^(*^#*!&*^#^@&!!!!!!!

[Mike_B]

Damn. You guys with your 13s and 14s (and those guys who need rewards weight in the 12s). At least I won't have to worry that much about getting shunted in T1.

[HawkBat]

The tinkering still continues. I am still tinkering with control more then I am the car.

[Bob McCown]

I am *NOT* consistently fast. I can turn high 15s pretty consistently, with the odd 14 thrown in for good measure. Anything outside of that is a fluke. :grumble:

[Lemming]

Hmmm, logged on and ran a lap, closed the program hoping that the graphics would boot better on reopen, now the server is telling me the track is closed?

[jstecher]

Yeah Lemming that was just a little glitch with the server when folks get into race mode. Just wait typically 15 minutes and you'll be able to get back in. This happens really infrequently.

[Matt Newcombe]

Had lots of fun lapping tonight. Passing is fairly decent on this track as long as blocking doesn't get too out of hand. Should be some good racing on tuesday night!

[Bob McCown]

I agree. I was lapping consistently in the low 1:16s tonight, in traffic, compared to the wild swings that I've been having lately when I lap during the day with nobody else on the track.

Now if I could find 3 more seconds....

[Bob McCown]

Does anyone have a set of Motec data from some sub-1:15 laps? Im trying to fine-tune T1/2/3 and the big chicane, since it seems that's where I'm most inconsistent.

[jstecher]

Had lots of fun lapping tonight. Passing is fairly decent on this track as long as blocking doesn't get too out of hand. Should be some good racing on tuesday night!

Yeah passing I think is pretty good on the track and you can pull off some nice over under moves as well if the person up the inside overshoots it. I know I had fun actually trying to figure out what was possible running with ya instead of just turning laps. :)

I think as long as everyone sticks to the single defensive move tact once they are engaged with someone life will be good. I know I was trying to stay with that running with you last night and it was tons of fun cause it meant you would pass me into T1 and I'd pass ya back into the hairpin. :cheers:

[jstecher]

Does anyone have a set of Motec data from some sub-1:15 laps? Im trying to fine-tune T1/2/3 and the big chicane, since it seems that's where I'm most inconsistent.

I can get you some tonight Bob. I always forget to turn the damn thing on. Of course I am slow through the final esses 60% of the time and then actually average 29% of the time and then 1% of the time get them right which if you do you should be at 90mph coming off the curbing on the outside of the last one.

[Bob McCown]

Cool, thanks John. I got one set from Keith and it was eye opening. Would be good to see other guys, too, to see how much off I am.

About 50% of the time I forget to turn it on, too. I hear the voice and my brain says "Oh, its on" when, in fact, its not. :stupid:

[Mike_B]

Cool, thanks John. I got one set from Keith and it was eye opening. Would be good to see other guys, too, to see how much off I am.

And you didn't share? C'mon. Give it up.

About 50% of the time I forget to turn it on, too. I hear the voice and my brain says "Oh, its on" when, in fact, its not. :stupid:

I have that problem too. I end up turning it on, then off again as I can't tell what it says because it says it at the same time that the real feel is talking.

[Bob McCown]

I can't tell what it says because it says it at the same time that the real feel is talking.

How is the Real Feel plugin? I read conflicting reports about it. Inquiring minds want to know!

[f2000keith]

The real feel plugin works well from what I understand, but only for the mods that were designed to be used with it (or have actual front suspension geometry that is simulated in a realistic way). I have yet to try it with the SRFs, but with most of the formula cars I have tried it with it was horrid. The best mod that i've heard it works with is the Caterham mod, but I dont' have that one installed. Try it and let me know how it goes with the SRF. :)

[HawkBat]

I would also love to get some motec data. I am liking the program, just a lot of data to go through. I am mostly looked at the track map layout with the colors to see where I needed to improve.

I would also be interested in the reel feel also. It is hard for me to just figure out what the car is doing without my other senses receiving input, maybe I need to make some sort of G suit.


And as for blocking, I say we should go with a way IMSA does it. Depending on the series it differs a little. But their rules are blocking is movement in reaction. I think is how I remember them saying it. And if you take a defensive line you must hold that line.

Also question about flags. Are we using the blue flag as a command flag such as in F1, where you don't let them pass your tires are shot out by a sniper? Or we doing it that it is a courtesy to move over but the approaching driver must make the pass.

[Stack]

c'mon guys... I need someone to practice with! :D

[HawkBat]

I will be on in a little bit. Finish up school work. Was talking to lawyers and stuff this afternoon.

[Bob McCown]

I was on when you showed up, but had to run. I'll be on later on tonight.

[Doug Carter]

If you are getting blue flags, you are a lap (or more) down. Get out of the way, or at least don't hold anyone up. Be mindful of faster cars coming up from behind.

[jstecher]

I would also be interested in the reel feel also. It is hard for me to just figure out what the car is doing without my other senses receiving input, maybe I need to make some sort of G suit. Use your eyes and the feel of the steering wheel. You can see rotation and feel understeer in the wheel.

I'll be on later tonight crashing into the sweeper wall exits if anyone wants to party. :P

[HawkBat]

As for the blue flags, I have no problem moving over. I just want to remind the front runners, that those of us in the back might be racing so sneaking up on us can lead to not fun times.

I guess I know how it will feel to be on the other end of the flag now.

[Mike_B]

What's with the checkered flags ending the session and kicking you from the track? I got about 10 laps in and then a checkered.

[Stack]

What's with the checkered flags ending the session and kicking you from the track? I got about 10 laps in and then a checkered.

You logged in at the wrong time I guess. Open sessions generally are over 2 hours long, then they reset. So yeah, you need to check the time remaining when you log in so you don't lose any changes. Hate you had to learn the hard way, but I think we've all been there.

[Mike_B]

You logged in at the wrong time I guess. Open sessions generally are over 2 hours long, then they reset. So yeah, you need to check the time remaining when you log in so you don't lose any changes. Hate you had to learn the hard way, but I think we've all been there.

Well after it reset, it did it again about 10 minutes later. I think Jon62 was there too when it happened.

The good news is that I found a problem with my controller. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't brake as late as you fast guys. I tried turning up the rate on that axis. It worked. I could brake WAY later. However, I was never getting up to 5th gear. Somehow I was losing speed when I upped the rate on the brakes. Looking at the little image of the wheel and pedals, I could see that there was a tiny bit of red on the brakes when the brakes weren't applied. So I've figured out what the problem is. Hopefully, it will be fixed by tomorrow (as long as the Gorilla glue holds). That should allow me to brake where I should be braking and still get up to max speed. <crosses fingers>

[Warpedcow]

Looking at the little image of the wheel and pedals, I could see that there was a tiny bit of red on the brakes when the brakes weren't applied. So I've figured out what the problem is. Hopefully, it will be fixed by tomorrow (as long as the Gorilla glue holds). That should allow me to brake where I should be braking and still get up to max speed. <crosses fingers>

You might also want to increase the dead-zone on your brake pedal with the in-game settings.

[Skeen]

Mike,

When it reset from practice, it loaded qualifying (which is short). You can see the track status in roughly the middle of the page (under the time sheet window). Down by the chat window, you can select the little computer-looking icon and reset the "weekend" so it goes back to practice.

For your brakes, have you gone to the garage and turned up the brake pressure? Default is 90%, but you can turn it up to 100%. This might solve your problem and you will might run into other issues tweaking your controller setup.

[Mike_B]

Mike,

When it reset from practice, it loaded qualifying (which is short). You can see the track status in roughly the middle of the page (under the time sheet window). Down by the chat window, you can select the little computer-looking icon and reset the "weekend" so it goes back to practice.

For your brakes, have you gone to the garage and turned up the brake pressure? Default is 90%, but you can turn it up to 100%. This might solve your problem and you will might run into other issues tweaking your controller setup.

Ah. I didn't know it went into qualifying.

Yeah. It's already at 100%. The Gorilla Glue didn't hold. Looks like I need new pedals as these are definitely broken (and apparently irrepairable). Oh well. I guess the wheel has been giving me signals for a while now. I'll have to get used to the lack of buttons on the G25.

[Stack]

The good news is that I found a problem with my controller. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't brake as late as you fast guys. I tried turning up the rate on that axis. It worked. I could brake WAY later. However, I was never getting up to 5th gear. Somehow I was losing speed when I upped the rate on the brakes. Looking at the little image of the wheel and pedals, I could see that there was a tiny bit of red on the brakes when the brakes weren't applied. So I've figured out what the problem is. Hopefully, it will be fixed by tomorrow (as long as the Gorilla glue holds). That should allow me to brake where I should be braking and still get up to max speed. <crosses fingers>

You've got the older Driving Force Pro don't you?

[Mike_B]

You've got the older Driving Force Pro don't you?

No. I've got an Act Labs Force RS with the shifter and the performance pedals. I could use the original pedals, but the springs on those are so weak that they are hard to drive. TigerDirect has a warehouse in Naperville, and they have the G25, so I'll head down there and pick one up.

[Stack]

No. I've got an Act Labs Force RS with the shifter and the performance pedals. I could use the original pedals, but the springs on those are so weak that they are hard to drive. TigerDirect has a warehouse in Naperville, and they have the G25, so I'll head down there and pick one up.

Gotcha... the DFP had notoriously week pots on the pedals... they would come loose from their perches.

If you gotta have the buttons on the wheel, I hear good things about the new Driving Force GT. BUT ... it too comes with the cheap ass two-pedal set up, wheras the G25 comes with what I think are very nice, heavy, metal pedals (with clutch pedal). Not ideal if you want to really heel-toe them, but head and shoulders above most game pedal sets.

The serious gamers use different pedal sets with the DFGT wheel.

I love my G25 for what it's worth. All its buttons are on the shifter console.

[billy]

I have a Driving Force Pro which is fine, Johns G25 is a lot beefier feeling though. I drove that last night.

(now hiding waiting for the smart alexs, :D)

[jstecher]

No comment what so ever Billy.

Pumped up for tonight girls. Should be fun after my crash fest last night. Hopefully I have all that out of my system.

[Stack]

Hell yeah... I'm comin' after you Stecher :mad: ;)

I got my voting out of the way 1st thing this morning to make sure I was home for this.

Can I go ahead and place a vote to run an alternate configuration of this track at some point?

[HawkBat]

Hey Mike when you got tiger direct in Naperville let me know how much they are selling them for. And also if they can sell a set of pedals.

[jstecher]

Hell yeah... I'm comin' after you Stecher :mad: ;)

I got my voting out of the way 1st thing this morning to make sure I was home for this.

Can I go ahead and place a vote to run an alternate configuration of this track at some point?
Ditto on the voting early today and I hope everyone else did as well.

Bring it on baby. If me and Keith dont decide to see what two SRFs look like mating into a wall coming out of the esses I am going to have you smelling Ford farts out my exhaust all night. :P

Bring it man!

[Lemming]

T1 is going to be interesting on the start, how many people have to crash in order to invoke the restart rule ;)

[jstecher]

Half the field Tim....half the field. :P I have a feeling this one is going to be close.

[Jon62]

:D
That was a blast...Looking for the next track to learn...:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[PaulL]

Keith, the replay's in the 'incoming' folder at www.trackpedia.com

It didn't ask me for un/pw ... so I hope that's the right place!

[Doug Carter]

Wow. Fantastic racing, guys. Up and down the field. Really awesome, even the chaos.

Can't wait for next Tuesday, already.

Hope to see you guys all ready to go next week.

:rockon:


Skeen, you're a freak. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Mike_B]

I'm pretty happy. I was intentionally driving slow to save my tires in the hopes that a one-stop strategy would gain me some positions (it did). Even though I was driving intentionally slow, I still managed to beat my previous best time. I was riding the brake 100% of the time with my old wheel.

I still drove crappy in traffic though. I'm going to be practicing with AI this week.

[Matt Newcombe]

Good racing tonight all! Unfortunately I had a few run-ins with other cars tonight which set me back a bit, but in all fairness I have nobody to blame but myself. Keeping your eyes open and avoiding incidents definitely takes a while to learn. Sorry if I punted and/or pushed anyone off track - the SRF's have big blind spots :s.
Skeen is obviously in a league of his own as he smoked everyone coming from the very back of the field... good job Mike!

[f2000keith]

Awesome racing tonight guys! Spec racing is so much fun!!!!!! These last two races are definitely a sign of things to come with the rest of the league. I can't wait! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Oh yeah, btw... I also apologize for the contact I had with whomever I hit. These things aren't so nimble and like a freight train to stop if you couldn't already tell.. I'm just glad how durable they are! :o

[PaulL]

Keith ... did you get my replay off the ftp?
I thought I posted here that I sent it, but I don't see my post.

[f2000keith]

Thanks Paul, but I didn't need it. When I reinstalled rF I still had it configured for recording replays. I just hope it's the full race. If not, I may still need yours.

[Lemming]

Interesting race to say the least. I had a nasty crash right before pit in, large parts flew off of my car after being hit very hard. Decided to enter the pits and see if the pit crew could fix me up. They had me up on jack stands for 35 sec doing something :stupid: However, when I went back out, all was well.

For those that say your were running a one-stop strategy, how did you do that? The most gas I could put in the car was 7.1 gal and that was only good for 15 laps?

[Mike_B]

For those that say your were running a one-stop strategy, how did you do that? The most gas I could put in the car was 7.1 gal and that was only good for 15 laps?

That's inaccurate. I was burning .2 gallons (or so) per lap. I did 30 laps before pitting. I wish I had figured that our before hand so I could have short fueled on my stop. Something else to remember is when you get to 15 laps, you automatically request a pit stop. You have to then unrequest it.

[Lemming]

That's inaccurate. I was burning .2 gallons (or so) per lap. I did 30 laps before pitting. I wish I had figured that our before hand so I could have short fueled on my stop. Something else to remember is when you get to 15 laps, you automatically request a pit stop. You have to then unrequest it.

I was basing my comments on the setup page where you decide how much fuel to run. I thought that it changed depending on track configuration, maybe not? Is the 7.1gal = 15 lap just a general rule of thumb on a normal length track?

[Doug Carter]

So that was YOUR crap laying all over the track in the esses? :miffed: I center punched a nose cowl coming through at full speed trying to hold of Keith and Matt for third place, and I thought they were going to run me over. Pucker moment, for sure.

I had my car setup for 2 stops, using suggested fuel for 13/13/13 laps. I think it was 6.1 gallons for each stint. I was wondering about my first stop in the race and looked down to see 21 laps in already and was shocked. It still had fuel for another 5-6 laps. I pitted on L22 for minor repairs and new tires, and knew I'd get to the end of the race if I took care of the tires and didn't make any major mistakes or have any spins.

If you run clean, and don't need to start from a dead stop a lot (spins, crashes, etc.) your fuel consumption is MUCH less. I found in testing mileage in practice stints that your driving style also has a lot to do with your mileage. Clean laps = more laps on the tank.


d

[Doug Carter]

Something else to remember is when you get to 15 laps, you automatically request a pit stop. You have to then unrequest it.

THAT'S why it did that! I couldn't figure out why it did that to me. Pissed me off until I could get the stop unrequested. Completely distracted me for a lap. :grumble:

[Mike_B]

THAT'S why it did that! I couldn't figure out why it did that to me. Pissed me off until I could get the stop unrequested. Completely distracted me for a lap. :grumble:

LOL. Yeah. Me too. I was trying to figure out which button I had set for that. Very distracting.

[Bob McCown]

Speaking of buttons, how do all y'all with a G25 have the buttons on your shifter set up?

[Doug Carter]

Something else to remember is when you get to 15 laps, you automatically request a pit stop. You have to then unrequest it.

Speaking of that, anyone know if that can be de-activated in an .ini file somehwere? That's just stupid to have that flashing on the screen when you don't want it there...

[Skeen]

Tim,

You can't really ever use the suggested fuel distance on the setup page as accurate. I think it does change track-to-track, but it's never accurate from what I can tell. You do have a fuel gauge when on track though, so you can modify your strategy as you go even if you don't do fuel tests beforehand.

I'll go ahead and tell you guys that (probably) every race is going to be a one stop. All races are supposed to be about the same length, even if different laps. I generally start with a full tank and then short-fill at the pit stop.

As for buttons on the G25, I used a pencil to write on the little aluminum thing what buttons were what. Couple of quick chats down at the bottom, brake bias/look back/vehicle labels in the center, and pit limiter/pause/lights/etc on top.

[Mike_B]

I generally start with a full tank and then short-fill at the pit stop.

As for buttons on the G25, I used a pencil to write on the little aluminum thing what buttons were what. Couple of quick chats down at the bottom, brake bias/look back/vehicle labels in the center, and pit limiter/pause/lights/etc on top.

Is there a way to fill less than what you have set up in the Garage screen, or are you stuck with what you put in there?


I've got "Pass Left" and "Pass Right" on the left and right black buttons. "Pit Out" on top, and "Pit In" on the bottom. On the red buttons, I've got Pit Lane Speed limiter off as one button (anybody know if you can turn that off by default?), TrackIR recenter as one, Request pit as one, and LCD mode as the last. The wheel buttons are look behind on the left, and horn on the right (for yucks). I've set the paddles to look left and look right for those times when I don't turn on the TrackIR.

[Skeen]

Is there a way to fill less than what you have set up in the Garage screen, or are you stuck with what you put in there?

Yes. When the pit request window comes up, use the arrows to go to the fuel line and use left/right to adjust the fuel as necessary. You can also opt out of fixing damage or replacing tires this way.

[Warpedcow]

I had loads of fun, just wish Google Talk hadn't popped up after 10 laps causing me to drop from 2nd to 8th. ARGH. My own fault of course.

Can't wait for Sebring! :cheers:

[Doug Carter]

I had loads of fun, just wish Google Talk hadn't popped up after 10 laps causing me to drop from 2nd to 8th. ARGH. My own fault of course.

Can't wait for Sebring! :cheers:

So that is what happened to you! We had a hellvua battle at the start of the race, and I was pushing you hard. Going into T1 I was all over you again, and then you vanished, popped up on the other side of the track then vanished again. Freaked me out.

Would have liked to continue that battle, but I'm sure we're going to have more down the schedule, Dave. That was FUN!

[HawkBat]

I had a great time even if if the punting and smashing started at the beginning for me. The race really went downhill for me when I pitted at the end of the first lap, and having been nailed hard twice. I guess I didn't need to but oh well learning experience.

Had a Blast, and yes these cars have blind spots. But it's a learning experience. Just can't imagine doing this almost every week, I think I found my new drug.

[Warpedcow]

Where and how are you getting hit? If from behind in braking zones, make sure you aren't braking too early, that can really throw people off. Work on hitting your braking points within a few FEET. I tapped John in T1/Lap1 from behind, because he braked a few feet early, no harm done with that small error of course, but if you have someone brake a few yards early, and someone behind them is just a few yards late, you'll see a huge pileup. Gotta be consistent folks. I'm not pointing fingers because I have no idea who did what, I had a fairly clean race...

Lapped traffic should LIFT on the straights. Far easier to let lapping cars by that way than trying to let us by in a turn. Plus, if you are chasing someone on your own lap, you'll benefit from a draft off of us anyway :)

[Doug Carter]

Lapped traffic should LIFT on the straights. Far easier to let lapping cars by that way than trying to let us by in a turn.

Agreed. Lapped traffic was very difficult to get through last night. :stupid:

[HawkBat]

After getting a great start going into turn 1 I was slammed in from behind. I in between 2 other cars with another two ahead of me. There was a slight hole I could have tried to go and force my way into and prob push a few people off in various directions and decided against it. I don't think I am explaining it great but basically the car to the left ahead of me moved over a little to the right then I need to brake then pow into the back I was hit.

The second time I was hit was the right hander in the sweepers before the S/F. Cars were in a mess after the hairpin and got around a few cars. I got around a few cars and spun cars. While going into the sweeps was side by side with someone and then was starting to be forced onto the rumbles when I was hit from behind very hard which spun me into the gravel and T boned a barrier.

Also when people spin in area such as the hairpin and are in the middle of the track. Wait for a little, look at the position chart. I know people were in dead center of the track that made more problem by moving the car and blocking more of the track.

[Warpedcow]

Ugh. Sounds like lots of people could use practice running with traffic. My suggestion (and I'll probably do this a few times myself) is to start a single-player race against 20+ AI cars, 6 laps or so, start from the back and try to work your way to the front without any crashes...

Also, I'm curious if Skeen had any traffic issues on his way from the back to the front... :)

[HawkBat]

Already done that trust me. Also did a 30 car ALMS race at the same track. Let me tell you mutlitple classes at the track and with 30+ cars, that are faster. Interesting, and a blast.

[Skeen]

A lot of these things would improve if we could get more people on and practicing in traffic before race start. If you know you have someone behind you coming into a brake zone, ease into the brakes more progressively to give them a chance to react. If you screw something up while leading someone, don't try to cover yourself; get in line behind them and work on making a pass later.

I had a couple incidents or close calls, one that I'll take half the blame for going into the esses, but overall everything was decent. As everyone should know now, these cars don't stop, so don't plan on making a divebomb braking maneuver work. If you don't have your front tires to at least the rear of the car you are passing, you're better off waiting. A lot of times if you just show your nose entering the brake zone, the other guy will out brake himself and slide off, handing you the position. *cough* John *cough* ;)

[Bob McCown]

I've been running Sebring locally with 20 AI, and I barely run into people! Maybe a pass, or get passed every couple of laps, but that's about it!

[Doug Carter]

Any way to get the AI to run faster? I found in my 20-car AI tests at OldRing, I was past all of the cars before the end of lap one... definitely not realistic.

[f2000keith]

There is an option to crank up the AI speed over 100%. If my pc was in front of me I could tell you where to find it.

[jstecher]

A lot of times if you just show your nose entering the brake zone, the other guy will out brake himself and slide off, handing you the position. *cough* John *cough* ;)

:lol: I claim brake fade. :) Nah I can't lie I completely cocked it up. I saw your dumbass Citgo car coming and was checking my stupid mirrors whooosh there went the braking point. Ah well...I got you at Road Atlanta. :P

WRT traffic and race craft for the most part I think everyone for racing online (a lot of folks) for hte first time are doing a good job. The biggest thing is just exercising patience when trying to pass cause I think that led to most of the bangs I saw in battles for position. Work the person in front of you and get setup for the pass don't come from 5 car lengths back expecting to out brake someone. Also since this is the virtual world here I think that running on someones ass isnt quite as intense as in real life so people continue to try and hit THEIR brake points instead of being aware of the car in front of them and HIS brake point. Bottom line is everyone will get better as time goes on...so hopefully no one is to hot over it. Just remember what goes around comes around and when you ram into someone you'll hope they wont make a big deal out of it cause trust me it happens to everyone. (*cough* Mike flipping me at Road Atlanta last year *cough*)

Only comment I really do have is lapped cars make sure you lift on the straights to let folks by...these babies being so under powered make it impossible to get by easily. Overtaking cars make sure to wait until a good spot...the esses not being one of them :P

[Stack]

On the lapped traffic thing... with fields this size, there will obviously be situations where a faster car will be in... oh just as an example: 16th or 17th, trying to get a lap back working his way up through the field.

If that car is me, I'm sorry, but I'm ignoring the blue flags.

So if you're in 6th or something, and an obviously faster 13th (or 17th, or even 10th) place car is catching you... be courteous and let them by, don't fight the position. If the car behind you isn't the next position number, it means they are at least a lap down. We're just trying to get back in the game.

[HawkBat]

Good that we are talking bout this. I have no bitter feelings at all, it was fun and a good first time learning experience. I tired to be as courteous as I could when letting leaders pass. If you got stuck behind me sorry. Please don't pass in area's where it shouldn't be done though.

I know how hard it is with passing and following blue flags with these cars, while working corners you see people either play it smart or be stupid and take themselves and other out. Plus blue flagging SRF "smurfs" is not easy, even when a car is slower they can still be in the corner at the same speeds.

Each track will bring its own challenges and everyone will be improving. Think we need to put spike strips out on course during a certain time and anyone who is faster then that, oh well. :)

[Doug Carter]

If that car is me, I'm sorry, but I'm ignoring the blue flags.

So if you're in 6th or something, and an obviously faster 13th (or 17th, or even 10th) place car is catching you... be courteous and let them by, don't fight the position.

Welp, if that's the case, I'll be using the 2-corner rule... if I'm being blocked for two laps by a backmarker, the third corner he's going to be introduced to Mr. Wall.

If I'm in 6th and you're in 17th or 10th or 13th, you're not getting waved by. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. Don't care if you're faster. Don't care who you are. If you were that fast, you wouldn't have been in 17th to begin with. Unless you're Skeen and embarrassing us all driving with one hand and his eyes closed from the back of the pack. ;) And then at that point, he's gonna get by you no matter what you do. :)

:p

If I'm in 6th and you want to get by me, you're gonna have to work your ass off for it.

[Stack]

If I'm in 6th and you're in 17th or 10th or 13th, you're not getting waved by. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. Don't care if you're faster. Don't care who you are. If you were that fast, you wouldn't have been in 17th to begin with. Unless you're Skeen and embarrassing us all driving with one hand and his eyes closed from the back of the pack. ;) And then at that point, he's gonna get by you no matter what you do. :)

:p

If I'm in 6th and you want to get by me, you're gonna have to work your ass off for it.

Why? You'll still be in 6th after you're passed, and if that car is faster, why not let him/her in front and learn something... maybe he'll help you catch 5th place!

I understand what you're saying Doug, and I'm certainly not saying you HAVE to let that car pass... but we all know that there will be times when it may not be entirely our fault we're be a back-marker.

So what I'm saying is, if you don't want to be taken out by a back marker (who's caught you), be smart and don't fight for the position.

To be clear... I'm NOT saying that if you're in 6th, and 7th place has caught you that you should lay down and concede. Hell no, you fight tooth and nail. I'm specifically talking about the situation when a clearly faster car is trying to get a lap or two back. Don't risk both cars by fighting for a pointless position.

[kbrew8991]

the onus is on the passer to make a safe, clean pass, correct?

[Doug Carter]

Don't risk both cars by fighting for a pointless position.

That's probably the best advice. In most situations that I have seen so far, it's slower cars that are being overtaken and are resistant to letting leaders through, not so much a faster car that has had a problem and is trying to get back into the fight.

Truth is, in this league, we have such a competitive group of racers that if you are down in 17th at any point, it's going to be a LOT to get back in the race, especially if you are a lap down and in contact with 6th place cars.

[Doug Carter]

the onus is on the passer to make a safe, clean pass, correct?

Always, but in the case of backmarkers, you'd always like to have co-operation. Holding up leaders or racing with cars laps ahead of you will only get you a reputation, and make the fast guys impatient with you on the track.

[HawkBat]

All good thoughts on the subject, it can only lead to improvements.

Also when we do a wave or you are trying to pass us just remember you might have to change your driving line to make it safe and clean. Don't think that when waved by mean that we will give up everything for you. Being forced off the track while being off line is not good.

[Mike_B]

Lapped traffic should LIFT on the straights. Far easier to let lapping cars by that way than trying to let us by in a turn. Plus, if you are chasing someone on your own lap, you'll benefit from a draft off of us anyway :)

I'm guilty of this. If you caught me going into the straight yesterday, I broke early for the corner rather than lifting on the straight. My bad.

I also am guilty driving into most of the field in T1. I just spaced on braking early for traffic. When everybody in front of me slammed on the brakes, I didn't.

I've got a gripe too. In qualifying, let faster people through. I got stuck behind a guy for what should have been two of my fast laps. On the second, I got by him and he punted me going into the hairpin, putting me off. That really put me off (if you know what I mean).

[tifosi]

I dunno guys. As a backmarker I'd rather let you by in a corner by backing off early or running wide. SRF's are momentum cars and it's really hard when you're doing all you can to go fast and then have to back off on a straight to let you by. If you're lapping me you're faster so use your skill and pass me. I know you're racing someone but so am I. I guess I'd rather be excluded by a 105% or similar rule in qualifying than have to back off to make sure a better driver was able to pass me.

[jstecher]

I think maybe what we just need to do is get a general concenous on what policy folks want when passing and then have folks stick by it. I am fine by having the other driver give up the position by braking early and giving up the corner as I can do that easy enough for a faster car or I can lift on the straight away (which I would prefer with this being a momentum car) as I would rather get a run out of a turn and give up some on the straights.

I personally don't care either way...at the end of the day I still stand by the overall motto race others the way you want them to race you. :)

[Skeen]

Just use common sense. We don't need rules.

Lifting on the straights will give you more control and lose you less time if you are smart about it. Don't park it, but you can drop 3 mph to let someone slip through.

[Jon62]

:o
Well, been going through these posts a few times, reading all the comments and trying to figure out how to respond...

Having just joined, and participated in my first race, I can probably see that allot of this "might" be aimed at me or others like me that have no real clue as to what racing is all about.
You seasoned racers are doing allot of the driving from instinct.
Past the basic driving skills that you have mastered, the "road rules', vehicle identification, car capabilities, passing situations and even something as simple as the game controls are probably close to second nature to you.

Last night, i was in an information overload for the most part.
I saw cars behind me, not knowing who they were. I think I was in 16th place at the end. I could see names of cars I was chasing, but nothing on the ones behind. The only one I did finally recognize was Skeen and moved across so he could run straight past me.

Does being in last place mean that I have to let every car pass me?

Wasn't until the race ended did I see that Skeen was 4 laps ahead of me. Only remeber seeing him once, on my last lap.

Yep, I spun out a couple of times in some bad spots. Got spun out a few times by other folks. Caused some confusion when I got the car finally going on at least one occasion...
Had to pit on lap 9 cause half my car was gone and it was driving like a boat.

If the spectrum of "experience" is going to be a factor in this, then I would suggest having two races.
One for those of you that know what you are doing, one for those of us ( maybe only a few I guess ) that are trying to learn.

Example, half way through lap 4, I finally figured out that the car can be made to turn using the throttle. Go figure.

If I read these posts correctly, I have no business, yet, of being in these races, where I can easily ruin someone else's lap, sector or race.

I had a great time last night seeing what everyone else was doing...

What I do not want to do is mess things up for everyone else.

Maybe I should stick to lapping and practice sessions until more competant...

:confused:

[Matt Newcombe]

I wouldn't worry about it too much Jon - it's all in good fun. All of us started out where you are at some point (in our sim-racing careers that is :P). Skeen's right, just some general common sense and a little bit of courtesy once in a while can go a long way.

This is just for fun and I for one am having a blast being middle of the pack!

[f2000keith]

Jon, this is the last thing that John and I wanted see happen in this league. Having different experience levels is unavoidable and all you can do as a rookie is race with us and gain experience as you go. Don't read into the rantings too much and try not to be discouraged. You're more than welcome to be racing in the league. You'd be surprised by how many people in the league don't have much/if any real wheel to wheel racing experience outside of the sim. The truth of the matter is that in club racing various experience, car speeds, and driving skill levels are what you really experience when on track.

I'd rather see 20+ cars on track with various skill levels having fun racing someone else than only a few who have a gripe with backmarkers. Lapped traffic is part of racing.

[Mike_B]

I saw cars behind me, not knowing who they were.

Map a button for look behind. When you are safely on a straight and somebody is behind you, hit that button for a moment. It will show their tag. Only do it when you are set up on the straight though.

I'm no newbie to sim racing. I'm just slow. I should know better than some of the mistakes I made yesterday. It happens. That's how we learn.

[Doug Carter]

I feel bad for contributing to the grumbling about backmarkers. :( Keith is right, it's part of racing, no matter what you are doing.

I'm well aware of the sensory overload that we all face racing these or anything else, and like any competitive sport, it takes time for it to all slow down. Hell, this was only my second SIM race in rFactor, so things are still moving way too fast for me, too.

Don't take too much of the moaning done here on the boards too seriously. We're all PO'd at doing our own stupid things behind the wheel in the first two weeks. I know we all did—I just watched the replay from the last two events a few times tonight. ;)

No worries, Jon... the steep learning curve gets easier with track time. But I think the kvetching and complaining probably will still remain. :)


And for backmarkers... let's all agree to just make an attempt to not do anything out of the ordinary with faster cars coming through. I was a backmarker at Brands Hatch and a front-runner at OldRing—I've been on both sides of the mirror. Just follow common sense and we should all be relatively happy.



d

[Stack]

Jon.... for what it's worth, my comments weren't directed at you, or really anyone in particular (basically because I had vehicle labels turned off to help my laptop performance) and because I've got a shitty memory (as I'm sure the replays will attest to.)

I'm really just whining like a little girl because as Doug alluded to, we all make mistakes out there and the red mist gets the better of us. I know I was guilty of some craptacular driving last night (although I think I had some damn fine laps too fighting back from dead last to finish 9th.)

I applaud you guys jumping into this ... in fact I can absolutely say that none of my comments were directed at anyone new to sim racing and anyone "off the pace" seemed courteous whenever it was called for.

I want to make sure though (to beat a dead horse) that everyone is aware of the position bar at the bottom of your screen. Your car/position is the red circle, and the other circles are the other cars in relation to you in front or behind. This is the quickest and easiest way to tell if you're fighting for position needlessly. Like I also mentioned, figure out the easiest way for you to scroll through your LCD screens and find the gap screen. This will tell you how far (in seconds) ahead or behind your closest two competitors are.

[Warpedcow]

So what I'm saying is, if you don't want to be taken out by a back marker (who's caught you), be smart and don't fight for the position.

Many of will recall seeing this happen in F1 this year, I think it was the Japan race, Hamilton passed Alonso on the last lap to "unlap" himself. Alonso gave him PLENTY of room. Just no point in fighting it.

[Warpedcow]

Like I also mentioned, figure out the easiest way for you to scroll through your LCD screens and find the gap screen. This will tell you how far (in seconds) ahead or behind your closest two competitors are.

The important thing here is that if this LCD screen says your closest competitor behind you is 10 seconds back, yet you see a car in your rear view, then they are on a DIFFERENT lap then you so if they are catching you, no sense in fighting them, since it's not gonna change anyone's position.

[HawkBat]

I need to make a song for us backmarkers. Chant it and you will go faster. Hey it's always good to have this discussion, lets people see into each others minds. Better then smashed cars. Though they are spec racers.

[Mike_B]

I want to make sure though (to beat a dead horse) that everyone is aware of the position bar at the bottom of your screen. Your car/position is the red circle, and the other circles are the other cars in relation to you in front or behind. This is the quickest and easiest way to tell if you're fighting for position needlessly. Like I also mentioned, figure out the easiest way for you to scroll through your LCD screens and find the gap screen. This will tell you how far (in seconds) ahead or behind your closest two competitors are.

A cool mod would be to change the colors of the cars on that position bar based on which cars are on the same lap or on an earlier lap.

[jstecher]

Everyone I just want to second what Keith said in that him and I started all this just to get a bunch of folks together and have fun, make friends and kick some ass. Both Keith and I are absolutely amazed at the amount of folks that come out and run hotlaps on a nightly basis during the week as well and we want to keep it going and growing.

So come out, have fun, race hard but at the end of the day we all have a lot of improving to do and this is the cheapest way to hone your racing and driving skills that there is.

How many times can you say you turned 500 laps at Brands Hatch for free. :P

Thanks EVERYONE for coming out and racing.

[Skeen]

Ditto what everyone is saying. Come out, have fun, don't sweat it. The more seat time you get during the week, especially wheel-to-wheel, the better you will be on raceday. When you get on during the week, ask others if they want to meet at Pit Out for an informal race--this stuff is often more fun than you will have anywhere else.

[jstecher]

Completely off topic but just wanted to cross post here to make sure everyone sees it http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4824 Keith and I want you to pick two tracks for us to run for the league to replace some dogs I chose. Drop your suggestions in the thread there.