Suggestion to fellow HPDE folks: Get that cage in your car.

[s4jones]

Mine is getting the front half done this winter. It won't be cheap, but it'll be stout.

Here's a very scary video of an October 2007 HPDE incident at our local road course venue in Kent, WA.

Driver walked away with no substantive injuries. Airbags and all did their job, but STILL think I'd rather have a cage, single-piece seat, harness, and HANS.

Only comment about the video: Personally I think the guys in the trailing cars should have pulled off the course to the inside, or somewhere offline from that sweeper, and they *probably* should not have hopped out unless they have medical training and fire fighting equipment at the ready.

Link ==> Scary MS3 incident. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx-zmGm3Kj4)

Wife will probably not see this one.

Aftermath:

http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/815/ms3crash1.jpg
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/815/ms3crash2.jpg

[MungoZ06]

Only doing DE's (aspire to nothing more competitive than time trials). FWIW ... Corvette C5Z06 ... only have 4pt weld-in roll bar (entensible at option). Still in stock seats and belts. Will end up with race seats and full harness. But before that - restraint - thinking R3 (self-contained, portable, vice: harness-dependent). YMMV

[Lobo6]

Only doing DE's (aspire to nothing more competitive than time trials). FWIW ... Corvette C5Z06 ... only have 4pt weld-in roll bar (entensible at option).

Thats what I have, I call it a half cage which can be made into a full cage. Mungo when you go the full route make sure you have back braces attached from the cage to the back of your race seats. I've never had to make use of my roll bar cage or my HANS but I'm glad they are in place, hopefully never to be used.

[Warpedcow]

Hmm, so it seems Volvos aren't the only cars that have the ABS incorrectly go into "ice mode"...

Glad everyone was okay. FWIW I still feel plenty safe with my OEM safety equipment.

[steveh]

I also have the half-cage that can be converted to full cage at a later date, with race seats and harnesses, seat-back brace, fire extinguisher and HANS.

Downside to full cage for DE is that full cage isn't street legal, so you're towing, with all that involves....

I still like to drive my ride to the track, and fully intend to be able to drive it home afterward. :)

[billy]

Lucky no instructor, the right hand side looked pretty bad.

Get a cage, get a cage, get a cage.

Anyone that thinks HPDE is safer than full out racing is deluding them selves. Car to car contact may be a bigger risk in racing but brake failure, running out of talent and the other various crash causes still apply. High speed offs are high speed offs, doesn't matter what the venue is, if it happens, the outcome can be very bad.

The MS3s are wicked fast cars, I chased one at BIR this year and in a straight line, the thing just rocks.

As for stopping on the track, I think a car on fire is the only reason to stop? Anyone disagree with that one? You hope that that accident led to a full course red, no?

[s4jones]

Thats what I have, I call it a half cage which can be made into a full cage. Mungo when you go the full route make sure you have back braces attached from the cage to the back of your race seats. I've never had to make use of my roll bar cage or my HANS but I'm glad they are in place, hopefully never to be used.

My 4-pt bar is being made into a 6-pt cage this month (will probably slip into next, but no matter the car is garaged now anyway). I'll post pics when the update is done. The current setup is buried among my car blog pics. As for attaching the seat to the cage, I've considered that, but plan on keeping my Recaro PP racing seats on their custom slider rails. Don't the race-ready Porsche cup cars come from the factory on rails? I sit so close to the steering wheel that it would be biznatch to get in and out over the side bars with the seat locked in my "driving" position.

[Lobo6]

SteveH, I know a few, not many that have full cages in their still street legal cars and have no problem with state inspections. I live in MA and its not an issue. Though it maybe in your state.

Billy, Racing and DE are two different disciplines. Speaking only from a PCA DE standpoint yes you see spins, offs, and a few bent cars at DE but car to car contact is very, very rare. I've yet to be at an event where that happened and I've been to my fair share. Go to a few PCA Club Races and you'll see how much more intense it gets. Despite PCA's 13/13 rule there is a lot more "trading paint" going on.

S4Jones, I haven't had the opp to crawl around a GT3 Cup recently so I don't know if the seats are back braced. However my ace mechanic who custom fabricated my half cage highly recommended the back braces for the simple reason that otherwise my Recaro seats are just on their rails. Back bracing to the roll cage makes them part of the safety system. BTW, my drivers seat is adjustable, forward and back to a small degree with the back braces. I also sit close to the wheel. If you have questions about doing that, and if it actually works please email Bill Pfister at Eurotech. Website is www.eurotechracecars.com Bill would be happy to discuss this. Tell him George w/ White 93 RS America #666 sent you.

[Warpedcow]

Get a cage, get a cage, get a cage.

Anyone that thinks HPDE is safer than full out racing is deluding them selves.

According to Gary Curtis, driving on track at his Donnybrooke HPDEs are safer than driving to the track on public roads (zero injuries in 20+ years). I'm inclined to agree. It takes 2 seconds on google to find pictures of cars wrecked far worse than this MS3 on the street.

[s4jones]

...I live in MA and its not an issue. Though it maybe in your state.

...car to car contact is very, very rare. I've yet to be at an event where that happened and I've been to my fair share...

...my drivers seat is adjustable, forward and back to a small degree with the back braces....

I don't think the cage is an issue here in WA either.

Car to car contact IS rare and I'd agree that the interaction BETWEEN cars is much more intense in a race day setting, but it happens at HPDEs from time to time. There was a nasty incident last year involving an NSX and a Ferrari at PR. NSX was driven by an instructor; Ferrari was driven by a visitor. NSX got a little close coming up a treacherous little hill/turn getting set to pass and the Ferrari bobbled. The NSX tapped the Ferrari from behind; the Ferrari spun straightish; the NSX went off into a little ravine and flipped. It's the only injury incident I've seen at an HPDE (although I've only been attending since 2004). I also think that some of the solo incidents that occur at HPDEs are the result of the same kind of red mist that gets folks in trouble when racing. The NSX-Ferrari incident probably had a little of that going on.

I'll have to do a little more ruminating/research on seat braces. Thanks.

...HPDEs are safer than driving to the track on public roads (zero injuries in 20+ years)...

...It takes 2 seconds on google to find pictures of cars wrecked far worse than this MS3 on the street.

I'd agree with both those statements in general. However, it seems like some kind of incident occurs every other event at PR where somebody's car is towed away due to an off-road incident. I've not conducted a survey to assess mileage at the track vs. accidents, but incidents resulting in tow-aways seem to be pretty regular occurrences. As for survivability: Road courses are usually setup more safely than your typical two-lane highway (let's hope so given the speeds seen). That kind of eliminates the images of cars cut in half by telephone poles. Nonetheless, that Carrera GT at California Speedway appeared to be surprisingly intact, but the result was no less fatal.

[curious]

Scary stuff. Thanks for posting this. The drivers in the trailing cars should have stayed in their cars.

[leggwork]

I don't think anybody should stop on track at an incident unless they have special training that enables them to truly help. Otherwise, there is a strong likelihood that they will just get in the way. You can seriously injure someone by extricating them in the wrong way. Corner workers and the safety truck should be present to respond to a fire and other issues. The puny fire extinguishers that only some people have in their cars are not that helpful when a fire gets going.
thanks,
bruce


As for stopping on the track, I think a car on fire is the only reason to stop? Anyone disagree with that one? You hope that that accident led to a full course red, no?

[Stack]

s4jones... do you have any more details about the event? car? driver? run group?

It's hard to tell from those pics, but it looks like he's on slicks. Any idea how much experience this guy has? It always worries me when stock cars (safety-wise) run slick tires.

[s4jones]

s4jones... do you have any more details about the event? car? driver? run group?

It's hard to tell from those pics, but it looks like he's on slicks. Any idea how much experience this guy has? It always worries me when stock cars (safety-wise) run slick tires.

Edit #1: This was a "NW Alfa Romeo " track day per the video poster (car owner). No other info.

On one of the comments (somewhere), a poster indicated NT01 tires. Not sure if that was speculation.

Edit #2: Owner posted this to a Mazda forum...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123684925

[1LapSRT]

Glad he's OK, but funny he wants to part it out.... What's left? :confused:

[s4jones]

... What's left? :confused:

Engine and transmission. Not sure of the condition. Video on YouTube shows shifting test.