997 Turbo finally announced

[billy]

Well,
It's announced and I want one. Looks really nice. If it's giving away power to the competition, the numbers don't show it. Still, I reckon a car like that would scare the living crap out of most people, speaking as a 996 novice still trying to figure out that...


http://www.porsche.com/all/masterwerk/usa.aspx

[jstecher]

I dont like the rims...they look cheesy and so does the intake.

They need to bring back the 993 Turbo. I wonder if everyone signed a big petition....hmmm.

Performance stats are hardcore to say the least but I dont know Porsche has lost some passion lately. To many models none of which are memorable.

[billy]

I dunno man
I made a shot of it my desktop and it's growing on me fast...

[Lobo6]

I dont like the rims...they look cheesy and so does the intake.

They need to bring back the 993 Turbo. I wonder if everyone signed a big petition....hmmm.

Performance stats are hardcore to say the least but I dont know Porsche has lost some passion lately. To many models none of which are memorable.
John,

Are you nuts??? Porsche has "lost its passion lately" What about the 997, 997S, Cayman S, or have you not noticed the first official factory backed race car in a decade or more...the Spyder RS prototype ALMS car that made its debut at Leguna Seca in the last race of the 2005 ALMS season and won??? Porsche/Penske sound like trouble for the other prototypes to me. We'll see that car at LeMans in 2006. As long as Norbert Singer is alive (crafty old bastrad genius that he is) the Factory does not go racing unless they feel they can win. Porsche has let privateer teams "fly the flag" as it were in Grand Am, ALMS, LeMans, etc and they have done very well winning in the GT class every year. There has been a lot of "unofficial" support to the top teams like Alex Job Racing, The Racers Group, etc. That support came in the form of technical assistance, engineers, and factory drivers. OK, they had to build a SUV a few years ago, but it is the world's fastest SUV. This year they will have the Cayanne Turbo S with another 50 HP. I don't get it or want it, but if it helps the world's smallest independant manufacturer stay solvent than I say go for it. :p

OK, I vented and now I feel better. :) If you don't like the styling of the 997 Turbo you are entitled to your opinion. But when you see one for the first time you'll probably change your mind as you drool for a test drive, watch that boost buddy :D And I do agree that the 993 looked great, but the 997 design has re-introduced a lot of 993 styling. After a rocky start the 996 ended up to be a great car, but a car that many Porsche "purists" never could embrace because of the styling, and guess what? The factory listened and now we have the 997. Personally I know a few drivers who are waiting another year or two to buy the 996 GT3 as the depreciation "hit" will have taken its toll and the "poser" owners will have moved on to the 997 GT3 (which I'm told will NOT have ABS brakes, that should be interesting, people will have to learn to drive again ;)

Porsche has lost its passion? You'll never live that one down. ;-)

[jstecher]

Lobo man you always kill me. :) I knew as soon as I posted that message that I was going to get flack. Here is how I fully qualify my statement.

First off the AMLS car and all of Porsche factory racing is bad arse and they have VERY smart folks there. However do I wish they would have went after LMP1 hell ya...why not go play with the big boys instead of picking a spot you can dominate. I know its called business strategy and stategic market placement but still...take Audi on and show what you really have, or take on the Vettes, Vipers, and Astons in GT1.

Also when I say Porsche doesn't have passion I mean the company. I know the real awesome passion behind Porsche (to me) is all the folks like you and your friends that are privateers with Porsches...you folks drive the passion behind the cars more than the factory ever could and you do it in a great manner. There is owner/driver passion and factory passion in my book.

My main beef is every Porsche I see now days looks the same! I can't tell them apart from a distance of more than 100 feet when I see them. If you don't believe it I know that Billy cant and Jeremy Clarkson had a hilarious bit on it as well on Top Gear. If you take the Boxster and 996 and look at them from the front they are almost impossible to tell apart. The Cayanne even looks like a jacked up 911 that I had a hotwheels of years ago. I guess maybe I am a loser but I loved the old cars like the 930, 964, 993 era ones as you knew what a 911 was. You knew what a 928, 968, 944 etc all where from a good distance away and each car had its own personality. I guess I am not a big fan of the wind tunnel shaping all your road cars designs...I am more a fan of passion and art shaping them. The 964 (your car) and 930 to me best signifies a Porsche.

I also am not a big fan of all the drivers aids in cars today as well as I think it disconnects you from the fun and skill of driving. I think it creates a false sense of driver skill in a good deal of the cars today. A lot of people that have cars like the new turbos, BMW's, and others that have about a billion and one gadgets in them to keep you on the road, make you drive quick, and save your butt in some cases without you ever knowing lead to me to a good deal of drivers that can't really feel or handle a car. I personally believe if you put them in a real race car they would be in for a world of hurt. It's easy to go fast in a car that does it for you...its a lot harder to go fast in a car that makes you work for it but you learn a LOT more that benefits you later on. I am by no means an expert or excellent drive and I have a lot to learn but I believe that I gained a lot more feel and skill by driving very hard and edgy cars my whole life.

In the end what I love to see is a company build something like the Elise or Exige. That is passion! I personally don't believe Ferrari has it anymore either as while their cars are fast they lack flare and are HUGE in size compared to the old ones. I think Lotus, Zonda, Dodge with the Viper, Noble, SuperPerformance, Ford with the GT and a few of the smaller companies are putting out the cars with the most passion embodied in them...not their owners. Cause I know you P-car guys are ungodly passionate.

[Conan]

Geez. John and Lobo, you guys might as well stop. This is like discussing why one guy likes a particular food that the other guy doesn't. Porsche and Ferrari guys always go at it in these discussions because Porsche and Ferrari impart two totally different philosophies into their road cars.

Ferrari's are race cars with the minimal amount of equipment added to make them street legal. The plus: An awesome handling and performing car -- assuming you can handle it. The minus: not practical for ANYTHING in the real world (driving to the store, taking a vacation, etc).

Porsche's are road cars made to be the best performing street cars in the world -- that means they have all the normal ammenitites of a luxury car, while still being able to go to the track and turn in damn good times. They can be driven easily by anyone as an everyday car, and at the same time can make an awesome track car. They are incredibly comfortable and the 911's actually hold an amazing amount of luggage for their size. This is why I love Porsches: They are an incredible piece of engineering, being good at both worlds.

I agree with John that the Porsches are starting to all look pretty similar. I'm glad they have gone back towards the 993 look with the 997. But remember that German cars tend to be designed from a pure mathmatical engineering approach where form FOLLOWS function. While Ferraris seem to design the body and mechanicals in completely two different shops -- the body being designed by an art school and the rest designed by race car engineers.

That's my take, anyway. :D

And, oh yeah, I love the new turbo! (Carrera GT is still the best, though :p )

[sbranda]

4 wheel drive and a turbo? When did Subaru buy porsche?:p

[billy]

At least, it's not a station wagon...

[Lobo6]

The Spyder RS will give the LMP1 cars somrthing to think about.

The 996 and Boxster were impossible to tell apart from the frontal view. That is why the 997 was given more 911 look. So far the reviews on both design and performance have been outstanding.

I do not like the "save me from myself" stuff either. It does give the driver a false sense of security and a false sense of personal driving ability. Actually the car is doing the driving. Turn that junk off and learn to drive.

Porsche...there is no substitute:D

[billy]

I do like the Porsche Save Me (PSM) mods. At my driving level, they only interfere when I screw up and the car is about to spin, as John will remember from T4 at BIR last year. Now, as I get better then it may start to become annoying but for now, the suicide button stays off.

The new Ferraris even have it, the F430 has the same stuff as the Porsches do now finally. I remember reading a 360 review against a 996 Turbo and the guy said the Ferrari was awesome, the only spoiler is I can't get that friggin turbo out of my rear view...

Maybe now, a normal guy in a 430 can give a normal guy in a 911T a run for his money, it wasn't the case before. Most people aren't professional drivers and so long as you can switch it into nutty mode on a track then cool.

I actually took out my car (3.4 996C4) (shod with Blizzaks now so not the grippiest) with PSM off with the intention of drifting around some turns. But, the bloody thing has so much grip even with the Blizzaks that I chickened out before it went on me. Maybe on a track, I'd be braver but still, it's a faster car than I've got the nuts for right now even with PSM off.

[Toycar 1]

The correct abreviation is PSMA, or Porsche Save My Ass :)

There is always a lot of discussions whether those systems are good or not, and that people that have them would never survive in a "real" car. That might be true in some cases, but as we all know, accidents do happen and I would much rader have some smart computer kick in to save me than wrap my car around a gard rail.

I don't have that luxury :( so I just have to stay cool and try to stay away from that gard rail.

[Lobo6]

[QUOTE=Toycar 1]The correct abreviation is PSMA, or Porsche Save My Ass :)

Too funny. :) Yes a valid point I suppose, for road driving. So what happens when the same guy or girl shows up at the track and finally decides to turn off the PSMA? Answer, "Mario" wads up his nice shiney car.:(

BTW, Billy you have 3.6 C4s not a 3.4 C4s, what am I to do with you :confused: Unless you checked off the "power delete" option when you ordered it?

[jstecher]

I agree the cars are getting better and that Porsche addressed the out cry at the 996 gracefully. But I still think there are to many common traits between the models.

My idea Porsche lineup would be

914 Update - 4 banger with bare bones nothingness Elise competitor
944 Update - Engine is a I4 or V6 with a mid engine/rear drive layout
Boxster - Open top fun car
997 - Your staple 911 (only models should be Turbo, C2 and C4)
GT3 - Bad arse sports car
CGT - Lotto winner or Playboys car.

To me thats the line up they should have. But alas Porsche hasn't called me lately for production ideas. Just Schumi calling me about with the 248 is slow. :)

[billy]

Nope,
It's a 99 3.4 C4 or am I missing some subtlety here :) Anyway, PSM is a good thing, I view it now as a idiot light, if I'm tracking the car and it stays off then I did well, if it's coming on in a turn then I know I screwed up. Least, thats how I'm reading it :cool:

[Lobo6]

Billy,

It really doesn't matter but. The 964,993,996, and 997 all have 3.6 flat sixes. The 997S has a 3.8. Some others like the 993RS had a 3.8.:)

[uwaeve]

Are you using metric or imperial liters? :p

[Lobo6]

Are you using metric or imperial liters? :p

Jeez, another wise guy:)

[billy]

Nope
My car is a 3.4, they switched to 3.6 in 2002 for an extra 25bhp.

[cavlino]

Lobo6, the first water cooled 911's (1999) were 3.4's I guess Porsche figured since they were water cooled they could reduce their size and still get the same power. Anyway after so many of them blew up they went back to the tried, tested and true displacement of 3.6.

[billy]

This is one of the things that annoy me about Porsche. Ferrari don't change the engine capacity of their cars mid life, only Porsche would do that to frustrate people that already bought a frigging car.

A Ferrari 348 is a 348 is a 348, ditto for 355, ditto for 360.

[cavlino]

Geez. John and Lobo, you guys might as well stop. This is like discussing why one guy likes a particular food that the other guy doesn't. Porsche and Ferrari guys always go at it in these discussions because Porsche and Ferrari impart two totally different philosophies into their road cars.

Ferrari's are race cars with the minimal amount of equipment added to make them street legal. The plus: An awesome handling and performing car -- assuming you can handle it. The minus: not practical for ANYTHING in the real world (driving to the store, taking a vacation, etc).

Porsche's are road cars made to be the best performing street cars in the world -- that means they have all the normal ammenitites of a luxury car, while still being able to go to the track and turn in damn good times. They can be driven easily by anyone as an everyday car, and at the same time can make an awesome track car. They are incredibly comfortable and the 911's actually hold an amazing amount of luggage for their size. This is why I love Porsches: They are an incredible piece of engineering, being good at both worlds.

I agree with John that the Porsches are starting to all look pretty similar. I'm glad they have gone back towards the 993 look with the 997. But remember that German cars tend to be designed from a pure mathmatical engineering approach where form FOLLOWS function. While Ferraris seem to design the body and mechanicals in completely two different shops -- the body being designed by an art school and the rest designed by race car engineers.

That's my take, anyway. :D

And, oh yeah, I love the new turbo! (Carrera GT is still the best, though :p )

Conan - Your summary on the Ferrari versus Porsche Phill's are bang on as far as I am concerned.

Welcome to the Moderator-Hood :cool:

[cavlino]

This is one of the things that annoy me about Porsche. Ferrari don't change the engine capacity of their cars mid life, only Porsche would do that to frustrate people that already bought a frigging car.

A Ferrari 348 is a 348 is a 348, ditto for 355, ditto for 360.

I bet ditto for the 430 too :D

[Lobo6]

Lobo6, the first water cooled 911's (1999) were 3.4's I guess Porsche figured since they were water cooled they could reduce their size and still get the same power. Anyway after so many of them blew up they went back to the tried, tested and true displacement of 3.6.
Billy,

I looked it up, and still couldn't believe it, you are correct, your 996 is a 3.4.:eek: Please accept my apologies and condolances at the same time :) Hell, I thought I was a fairly decent driver passing all those 996's on the track. Me misinformed, you underpowered.:)

[Lobo6]

[QUOTE=Conan

Ferrari's are race cars with the minimal amount of equipment added to make them street legal. The plus: An awesome handling and performing car -- assuming you can handle it. The minus: not practical for ANYTHING in the real world (driving to the store, taking a vacation, etc).

Porsche's are road cars made to be the best performing street cars in the world [/QUOTE]
OK Conan, its your turn at the mast:) If Ferrari's are race cars how come there are so few owners tracking them in the US? While the Porsche "road car...best performing street car in the world" is performing at race tracks all over the US every year??? I will grant you that a lot more Porsche cars are sold per year than Ferrari's but it still doesn't explain why there is such a disportiant number of Ferrari "race cars" being tracked to the number on Porsche "street cars" being tracked? Any thoughts?

Well I have a few. Ferrari owners are mostly a bunch of rich guys who pay someone else to "wax and buff" their cars and then race them to the best local restaurant to be parked in front. There are an equal amount of Porsche owners who do the exact same thing. However PCA runs hundreds of DE events per year that are attended by thousands of drivers. I do not have the official numbers, but here is a case in point. Last year The North Country Region (NCR) had over 500 different drivers attend their DE schedule. Which only included a bunch of NHIS days, 1 Lime Rock day, and a co-sponsered date at LCMT. The entire region has less than 500 members. I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point. :)

Yes Ferrari's are race cars, but racers are not buying them for the most part. Hell there is more real racing inthusiam in the Suburu WRX club. the Miata Club, BMWCCA. Nisson Z car types, etc. PCA has thousands of drivers tracking their cars in both the DE and Club Race programs every year. Not bad for a street car. So despite your kind words about Porsche cars overall, I have to disagree with you.

There is a difference between preception and reality. ;)

[jstecher]

I can speak for the Ferrari folks that I have encountered pretty well I think so here's a go Lobo. My break down of Ferrari owners goes as follows:

60% of Ferrari owners are meerly out to be seen in the car and show off that they have "made it". These folks typically have 360's/430's/575's or otherwise the older cars like the 308/Mondial/308GT4. It's all about appearance and who has the bigger gold chain. :) These folks will typically upgrade the first chance they get to get a new model. These are the folks that race to the restaurant at night and spend all day washing and waxing (or paying someone to do it)

20% of Ferrari owners cannot afford the up keep on the car they purchased and the last thing they would want to do is break it or risk damage to it in anyway as it most likely would cause them to sell the car. So it sits in their garage and gets pulled out only for Sunday drives and car shows...they however have hundreds invested in t-shirts, hats etc.

10% of Ferrari owners have purchased the car they always wanted growing up. Most are middle aged. These folks are the owners in most cases of the 1960's and 1970's cars like the 330's, 512BB's, 365's, 275's etc some times a TR and in the case of them being well off a 360/430 etc. These folks are generally great to talk to as they know the whole history of their cars and the company in gerneral.

5% of Ferrari owners are the mega rich. This includes those folks that I have posted pictures of in the POTW posts in which you will see a 250SWB on track at speed and passing almost everything on the track. When you put 2 million dollars on the track you need to have the means to replace it. I have seen numerous folks do this with cars that are worth more than I have made in my life, and I just keep hoping for the lotto to come. :) This is a rare breed.

5% of Ferrari owners are like Carm and I (actually I think the number of people who track Ferrari's on this board matches those that track Porsches :eek: ) who generally just love the marque and have fun driving the cars. We are your normal car nuts who just so happen to love Ferrari's above other things they could be driving and fortunately have the means to support that habit. Some are a little more brain damaged than others (such as Fat Billy Bob who posted on here a while ago and has turned his street 348 into a complete track car) but in general this is a group of unassuming guys that you would seeing them on the street never guess they owner the Ferrari. (In fact Billy knows I wear Porsche shirts to people dont ask me about the car).

Overall I think the reasons you dont see as many Ferrari on the track are:

1. They cost upwards of 160k and frankly I don't see many Porsches that valuable on the track either at track events. Most PCA events I have attended are typically dominated by 944's.
2. Parts are ungodly expensive. This is the biggest prohibitive factor I believe. 9k alone this winter for my transmissions bearings and one single clutch shaft. Thats no synchros, no gears, nothing...just bearings and a few parts. Those prices are whole sale as well because of a great company I get parts through searching the globe for me to get me the best price but its unbelievable and undoable for most. A engine is 15k used/20k new. Shocks are 4k. Body panels...well lets not even get started. Compare this to a 944 or a Miata. I could have bought one for what I paid already. Am I complaining...yeah a little...but I would trade this car for anything besides MS's F2004 on the track? Not a shot in hell. :)
3. These cars scare the crap out of people on the track. Conan knows it from driving my car and me driving his Z. The Z is a cake walk to drive where as the 348 demands total attention.
4. Most people that can spend the 40k+ to get an older Ferrari 328 on up are instead spending that on cars that dont cost as much to repair and in most cases are brand new like M3's WRX's EVO's etc.
5. Ferrari's are a lot rarer than Porsches. I think Porsche (last i saw) makes more cars in a month than Ferrari made all during the 1990's. That leads to you seeing a lot more at the race track.

In any case I think if Ferrari's were more obtainable price wise and production number wise you would see the same amount of cars on the track as you do Porsches.

Anyway my rants done....I need to now come up with a cool catch line for Ferrari like "Porsche there is no substitute". Anyone have any ideas?

[jstecher]

Whew...I typed a lot.

[cavlino]

John, you did type alot! You are bang on as far as I am concerned though. Helena can usualy come up with good catch lines. I will leave it up to her to post something for us Ferrari folks :D

[Conan]

If Ferrari's are race cars how come there are so few owners tracking them in the US? While the Porsche "road car...best performing street car in the world" is performing at race tracks all over the US every year??? I will grant you that a lot more Porsche cars are sold per year than Ferrari's but it still doesn't explain why there is such a disportiant number of Ferrari "race cars" being tracked to the number on Porsche "street cars" being tracked? Any thoughts? Yes, and John said them :). I don't see the correlation between a car's abilities and whether it's tracked. I'd be willing to bet more people track Hondas and Toyotas than Ferraris, but I certainly wouldn't use that as an argument to claim they are better performance cars.

I wasn't trying to say one manufacturer is better than the other in my previous post. I was simply pointing out the philisophical differences between the companys. IMO, Ferraris are better looking than Porsches, but Porsches are engineered better. Both are great track cars, but the Ferrari needs less done to it to make a full race car because 99% of them come nearly ready from the factory.

I love Porsches. They are my favorite automobile company of all time. I still plan on having one, someday. Growing up, I always wanted a 928. Now I want a 993 S. :)

[Conan]

Now I want a 993 S. :)That is, I want a 993 S because it's actually attainable. I REALLY want a Carrera GT, but that ain't happening.

[billy]

John
rubbish, you wear a Porsche t-shirt because you secretly want a purple one, admit it! I don't think you can even get a purple Ferrari...

[cavlino]

John
rubbish, you wear a Porsche t-shirt because you secretly want a purple one, admit it! I don't think you can even get a purple Ferrari...

Thank God Ferrari will not produce a car in any colour a customer demands, can't say the same for Porsche though :D

[cavlino]

That is, I want a 993 S because it's actually attainable. I REALLY want a Carrera GT, but that ain't happening.

Conan, the 993 S is a very nice car. I had a 1996 993 C4S and I enjoyed it quite a bit. If I was going to get another S I would have switched to your choice a 993 C2S. I prefer the push feel in a car versus the pull feel you get with the AWD versions.

[Lobo6]

John, you did type alot! You are bang on as far as I am concerned though. Helena can usualy come up with good catch lines. I will leave it up to her to post something for us Ferrari folks :D

I've got one..."Ferrari, bring your mechanic and your check book, leave your Gucci loafers at home" :)

[jstecher]

Damn right I like that one Lobo. :D

But my Gucci driving shoes are so comfortable!!;)

Here I thought I was the only insane one to be on the site on a Saturday night. Guess we are both cool guys. Or are you still up dreaming of being back at Sebring?

[Lobo6]

Damn right I like that one Lobo. :D

But my Gucci driving shoes are so comfortable!!;)

Here I thought I was the only insane one to be on the site on a Saturday night. Guess we are both cool guys. Or are you still up dreaming of being back at Sebring?

No, not insane to be on the site this late. I was in the (colder than Sebring) garage re-installing my freshly turned rotors. Getting ready to go to VIR for 3 days of track w/Zone 2 PCA at the end of March, weather permitting. The air temp is low enough to give a new dimension to the term "Frozen Rotors". :)

If you'd like a nice track car...please see the for sale area. I was the first post. You Ferrari guys win, I quit, well I didn't quit, but I will not argue the Porsche / Ferrrari thing any more. It could go on for years and it's stupid. I know that there are more Porsche drivers who will track their cars than there Ferrari drivers. THAT was my point from the beginning. Percentage wise, there are more Porsche owners who will put their cars on the track than Ferrari owners. John and Carm, I'm glad you guys put your cars where the rubber meets the road. Who ever said (Conan, super something) that he thought Porsche's were great cars and "hopes to own one someday" is not qualified to even comment upon our Porsche vs Ferrari discussion.:mad:

[jstecher]

You guys I bet are getting the weather crap we had here over the past two days. Last night and the day before were both -10 or more below zero. I didn't even venture into the garage.

Yep agree no more P-car/F-car talk. As usual it always gets people fire up for no reason. I do have to stick up for Conan as I know he is a life long Porsche fan and an all around good guy. I think he was making the exact point you just made in that its pointless to argue about the cars as each camp sticks up for themselves and in reality the cars are as different as the Italians and Germans that make them. Hell I am sure if anyone insulted the 350Z and said its owners didn't have passion we would have Uwaeve, 350ND and Conan all over them as well.

All in all I think everyone on the site here is a good guy and obviously competitive in nature just for the simple fact we push our cars hard. I expect things to get heated some time but in the end its never personal as everyone on the board has something to contribute. Yep even crazy, safety obcessed Irish men like Billy!:D

Now get some sleep or tighten up those lugs if your still out in the garage.

[Toycar 1]

I know the P-car vs F-car discussion is closed, but I can't help it, I just have to add one more :D
The other day Carm was putting up some pictures on his WebShots site and was going through the number of cars we have had so far when he asked me if our next Ferrari would be a Toycar as well? Without really thinking my response was "no, Toycar is for Porsches, Ferrari is a real car". Now, why would I say that? Let me try to explain before you all rip me to pieces.

To start with my choice of words was not quite right, I really should have said 'serious' instead of 'real'. A Ferrari is, well a Ferrari. It has passion, it has character and the sound - ahh. When you drive it you can feel the power, the rawness but also the delicacy. It is not easy to drive well, so when you manage to do it right the satisfaction is undescribable (addictive to some). I guess it's a bit like beeing able to master a wild horse.

But would I trade my Porsche for a Ferrari? Never! I want a car that I can drive, a car that is bullet-proof and solid, a car that I won't be affraid that something might break just because I push it a bit. I want a car I can drive to work without causing a traffic jam, a car I can park on a public parkin lot without feeling the need to rope off the area. A car I won't feel the need to take out a second mortgage because it needs a service. I want somethign that is pure fun - a toy.

The slogan is so true - Porsche. There is no substitue. Ferrari, well that's a complete different ball game...

[Conan]

Who ever said (Conan, super something) that he thought Porsche's were great cars and "hopes to own one someday" is not qualified to even comment upon our Porsche vs Ferrari discussion.:mad:I'm not qualified? What exactly would qualify me? Let me guess, I'd have to own one, right? Pretty arrogant.

[cavlino]

I don't want to close this thread but if we can't play nicely I will.

[sbranda]

Porsche? Ferrari? Who cares. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't a real car unless glue is a major structural component. Go Lotus!!

[cavlino]

Now that's more like it!:D

[jstecher]

Yeah and glue makes it easier to fix right Steve? :) Just a little JBWeld here and there and you are money.

[uwaeve]

Man, I'm so glad Al Gore invented tha interweb. This is great.

[Conan]

Conan, the 993 S is a very nice car. I had a 1996 993 C4S and I enjoyed it quite a bit. If I was going to get another S I would have switched to your choice a 993 C2S. I prefer the push feel in a car versus the pull feel you get with the AWD versions.Looking around, I'm guessing I might have to open my options a bit. Can't seem to find too many 993 S2's. :( Ah, well. I'd settle for a standard Carrera 993 and then work it up at my leisure. :) I'm in no hurry, though. The 350Z is damn good, and with a few more mods, will be able to hang with just about anything. :D

....... still not a Porsche, though. ;)

[jstecher]

Conan I still think you should get the 930! Thats a mans Porsche and its one of the best looking ones along with the 964 bodied 911's.

Just think of how good a drive you would be if you can get that baby around the track fast!

[sbranda]

Yeah and glue makes it easier to fix right Steve? :) Just a little JBWeld here and there and you are money.

Actually, a lot of people talk about JBWeld, but I'm constantly disappointed by the results I get with it. Though, I do like their epoxy putties.

I glued my esprit back together with MarineTex. Messy stuff to work with but I can't think of anything better for the application because it gives you a 20 - 40 min working time and can be applied up to an inch thick on a overhead surface w/out sagging.

[Lobo6]

Man, I'm so glad Al Gore invented tha interweb. This is great.

:cool: Uwaeve, that comment was too fuuny. I'll bet it went right over everyone's head. Yes I remember when Al made that remark, bet he was glad that it went largely unoticed by the media and the republicans. Thanks for bringing that one back...still laughing. :)